Life After Naim

Probably not nearly as interesting. Remember there are many ways to practice the hobby we share.

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I spent my stereo life from 1980 to 2004 buying components based on whims, and never hearing good musical reproduction.

Then I bought an all Naim system new, and loved it and kept it until about 3 years ago, when I stumbled onto the Naim forum.

I realised I had never got the best out of any system Iā€™d owned.

Since then I have tried lots of experiments, but used my ears to decide and only kept what sounded better, and got rid of everything else.

Itā€™s been fascinating and fun and educational and musically revelatory for me.

Overall a delightful process.

Simplifying my system and making as a good as I am able to within the constraints of my life.

Iā€™m really very grateful for all the help Iā€™ve had from this group of people.

As part of this excellent organisation, Naim.

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I expect to life to around 2050.

And I hope that Naim outlives me.

And keeps evolving.

And sticks to what it does best.

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Iā€™ve pondered this over the last day. I donā€™t think you can blame Naim for providing an ever increasing upgrade path. Anyone can get off the merry go round any tine they like. No one holds a gun to your head until we all make it ND555 and Statement or die trying.

Ultimately you get approximately what you pay for. So whether you switch to another brand where the flagship models are all at NDX2/282/250 price points or stick with Naim at that point, itā€™s the same thing in relative terms. Whether you prefer the sound of the non Naim option is another matter entirely.

For me the issue is range reduction. Gone are all the entry level pre/power amps and probably the FlatCap is not far behind. Shoebox is gone too. If you want on the seperates ladder thereā€™s only the Uniti range. If an all-in-one isnā€™t your thing, Naim donā€™t really have an offering for you. You have to start outside of Naim and migrate over once you get to a point where classic seperates are in you price range. I think thatā€™s a shame.

Ideally thereā€™d still be a natural power amp for the Nait 5i, a pre/power XS offering, and a 5i series streamer that could be FlatCap powered. And in a perfect world, the 5i series would all be shoeboxes :wink:

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For me at the height of Naim ownership I had:

252(SC2DR)/ 300DR/n-DAC(NDS) / 555DR / full SuperLumina Loom / PowerCord / Ovator S400/ HDX 2TB / Fraim

I Still have Fraim and HDX.

Since I went Active ATC for my speakers, I ditched my passive speakers, power amp. and my SL cables in one go.
Also Went with a MSB Premier DAC/preamp./Streamer as I am all digital now, no need for a Naim preamp. either.

Life was good with all Naim. But life is even better now I have only my HDX server, a 2 box all in one DAC/Pre/Streamer and much less cable mess. As well as 2 Fraim Levels gone (could have been 3, but I like the extra hight for aesthetic reasons).

So, I now have much less clutter and a better sounding set up and that is a win/win for me and my circumstances. I can (and have done) still go with a gradual upgrade path with my MSB. You can buy upgraded Clock, better PSU, Streamer modules etc. as required.

Granted not cheap, but not 500 Series prices for Streamer PSU and preamp. either, and I am happy to do this gradually. I have found my end game speakers too with the ATC SCM50A Classic. Top class speakers that will grow and not be out of depth as I upgrade the MSB front end, perhaps a Melco Server latter as well.

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Those of us without endlessly deep pockets will always reach a point where going forwards with Naim starts financially impacting in ways that In all good sense cannot be allowed.
Once you have paid your bills and saved for your future then next comes hobbies and pleasure not before.
Iā€™m almost sure that many have gone down that slippery slope before and it is no fault of Naim Audio they are a business supplying a service for profit nothing more.

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Indeed Bob. Also kudos to Naim for allowing a thread like this to exist on a company forum. Not all businesses allow this to happen for obvious reasons.

Iā€™ll never say never for a return to Naim products in the future. There may well be a Naim product release latter that appeals to me.

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Well sure. You can just buy something else from a lower cost manfacturer.

But, I rephrase my earlier post: why do you have to ā€œmove forwardā€. Whatā€™s stopping you getting off the merry go round at a Nait XS3 and ND5XS2 or something, and just buying music and being content? I genuinely want to know. Is it important to people to have a brand where they can climb the ladder to its flagship products?

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I think the younger generations are not interested so much in collecting black box separates.
Much more interested in a single music box they can control using a phone or speech.

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There is always going to be other kit that will tempt you away, some better sounding, others just offer a different sound.
But you try and if you like then great, as life is far to short not to give things a go. Naim is quirky and quite old school in some off its ways ,it still does things, but then it works so why not.
I dont get the blinkers that some have, and canā€™t see why you wouldnā€™t try other gear, as Naim are not the best at everything, nor cheap.
Recently i tried something different to my 552/500 and it didnā€™t work, so kept the Naim, but on the other hand, when i was looking at a new streamer/dac, the ND555 just didnā€™t come up with the goods, and so went elsewhere.
But as long as you can afford it ok, keep the wolves away and enjoy life, then what ever system you have, as long as you enjoy the music it makes, then does it actually matter what you have.
All the manufacturers keep on improving things and as long as Naim do the same, then i am sure they will be ok, but they do need to keep up and they have have a few holes in the market that need to be filled in my book right now, as if they dont then i can only really see more people moving away.

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A friend of mine got interested in wine and went to night classes. Later she wished she hadnā€™t done this since it made drinking affordable wine unsatisfying. She felt that sheā€™d cultured her palate beyond her ability to fund it.

I often have similar thoughts about hifi. I look back to previous systems; NAD3020, Tannoy Venus, Thorens TD160 etc and ask myself if I enjoyed music any less then. I donā€™t think I did. Iā€™m happy enough with my current system but still have the nagging voice that I really ought to replace my SBLs with SL2s and shouldnā€™t I replace the 2xNAP250s with4x NAP135s and maybe a 552 would be better than a 52 etc. Would it sound better? Iā€™m sure it would. Would I enjoy it more? I just donā€™t know, I doubt it.

Naimā€™s a double edged sword, the ability to evolve a system bit by bit, improving power supplies, preamps, poweramps etc one at a time does allow you to gradually climb their hierarchy of products it also risks leaving some a little dissatisfied with thoughts of the improved SQ of the next step.

Personally, I think Iā€™m done. Well unless another DAC comes outā€¦ or that pair of SL2s turn upā€¦ or a nice group of four CB135sā€¦

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Is there an argument that the entry level separates made the least sense (ok thatā€™s subjective) and sold poorly (thatā€™d be objective) in the market today?

My ā€œguessā€ is that people prepared to spend the cost of those entry-level separates do better with a Nova. Or a Nait XS3. If they are really just now entering the home hi fi space, the Nova gets them all of the functions, sans phono stage. Nait the converse, all functions other than streaming, but a natural pairing with ND5XS2.

Not my experience as a very experienced (but now reformed) wine drinker. I propose that itā€™s her psychology at workā€¦she could ā€˜fixā€™ herself. Her palate could not possibly have been ruined by a set of night classes. but her mind could have been! Likewise, I love listening to my UnitiQute2; it makes wonderful music. And there are perfectly enjoyable wines at essentially all price points! Itā€™s a fun quest - finding the enjoyable $10 bottles (or whatever her budget permits).

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I had always wanted some of Naimā€™s black boxes ever since I had an amazing demo at Radfords back in the early 1980ā€™s. Now that I have some, i find my blind allegiance questioned from time to time, but given the hassle of setting up a quality demo I have yet to change course. Thatā€™s not to suggest that i havenā€™t been tempted, for instance, i have heard an amplifier which i would buy without further audition if I won the lottery big time, but not on my income.

So for now I shall stick with Naim, ā€˜apathetic and impoverished of Bristol, UK.ā€™

btw, I am still looking for a streaming source and pre amp, just in case anyone knows of one that works well with a Nap 300DR, which doesnā€™t require more than 2 boxes, preferably one, which doesnā€™t cost me an ā€˜arm and a legā€™ and has a really good UI. :grinning:

I must admit I dont understand the whole upgrade-itis thing, I have not seen anywhere Naim saying you need to upgrade ? Canon make cameras and produce a whole range from a couple of hundred GBP to many 1,000ā€™s and the whole point is to meets peoples needs at different price points. I am on a couple of camera forums and there is nowhere near the talk of upgrades (if any) on there. Naim produce boxes at different price points to satisfy consumers needs/wallets, whats wrong with that ? If people want to get a better box that is up to them and nothing wrong with wanting to better yourself.

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There was a sad tale on these pages years ago, where the forum members watched (via a stream of posts over many months) a person slowly more-or-less bankrupt themselves with an addiction to upgrades. It ended up costing the guy a lot, including his relationship.

I upgraded far too much about 15 years ago and ended up in debt to the tune of over Ā£25,000, which is why I sold the lot and downsized to a CD5x, Nait 5i and a pair of nSats. The sale didnā€™t clear the debt and it took me ages to claw myself out of it. The SSRIs I was taking totally eliminated the ā€˜hold on, what are you doing?ā€™ thought process and when I came off them I quickly realised what Iā€™d done. My lovely wife stuck by me but it was a hell of a struggle. I only have the relatively posh system I have now because I got compensation when I was knocked off my bike in 2016. There are obviously some on here with plenty of money for whom a 500 system or even more is easily affordable, and itā€™s all too easy to want to have what they have.

I donā€™t believe continual upgrading is essential but I know from bitter experience that itā€™s all too easy to get sucked in.

Clearly there can be life after Naim that is as good as life with Naim. Itā€™s also perfectly possible to get as much enjoyment from an entry level system as from the latest and greatest. Itā€™s the music that matters after all. Buy what you can afford and no more.

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Compulsion can turn any hobby or interest into a very dark endeavour. Much has been written about ā€œcollectorsā€ vs. ā€œhoardersā€ etc etc. And message boards / online fora absolutely can fuel it. There is some sort of ā€˜serotonin hitā€™ that is unfortunately short lasting. (And interesting, reading HHā€™s post that has crossed time-wise with mine, perhaps SSRIā€™s dull that hit or exacerbate it.)

Interestingly, the ā€œunboxing videosā€ that at least were, not not still, very popular, including with very young children, can have the same effect. They are not healthy for children. But seem harmless.

Some see buying hi fi as the hobby and others see buying music as the hobby. I am in the latter camp. I love music whatever itā€™s played on. I suffered from upgraditas back in the 70s with the same terrible consequences as others. I will never return to those days although ironically I can afford more now than I could back then.

HH, you have written this before on this forum and my respect for what you wrote. It is an important message.

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