Linn Lp12 Experiences then & now

[Td160man]

It’s common knowledge that in the late 1970s to mid 1980s a Linn lp12 with Naim Amplification and Speakers perhaps Linn or another reputable brand ( Spendor, Rogers etc) was a solid combination.

It’s common knowledge that the UK press was ecstatic about the Lp12 from 1973 to mid 80s and from then other Turntables were given consideration.

Please tell me about your lp12 experiences . Did you?

1/ Kept it and serviced it

2/ Kept it and went for numerous upgrades . If so why?

3/ Changed it for another Turntable or maybe dispensed with vinyl altogether

4/ Audtioned it and not for you . Tell me what happened and what turntable did you eventually buy?

With this debate can we please refrain about the pricing or value of the Linn lp12 and accessories. This debate is about sound quality and enjoyment from your records.

[Td160man]

Just so you know my Turntable experiences, I never owned a Linn ( came close some years ) but I’m considering one. My nickname will always be TD160 man.

I have been lucky to have owned over 45 years PIoneer Pl12d 2nd hand , Dual 505 deluxe 2nd hand , Elite Rock 2nd hand , Roksan Xerses new ( Sonically brilliant and would have been a keeper but I hit problems after 8 years ) Michell Gyrodec 2nd hand ( An absolute delight but I had to get it repaired it 3 times in 20 years ac motor eventually died), Collaro 4t2000 2nd hand ( brief flirtation) Micro Sieki dqx 500 2nd Hand ( had my fun with it very nice , sold it on , cost more than an lp12 in 1979 ,Lenco L75 2nd hand ( really nice , getting it serviced by a friend) , Technics 1500c new ( superb value and great with Goldring E3) Thorens Td160 2nd hand tp16 arm , at95 shibata cartridge ( Sounds great and obtained for a stonking price )

For reference purposes I have heard ( shops, exhibitions, friends houses) & enjoyed Pink Triangle, Systemdeck/Audionote , Nottingham Analogue, Orgin live, Clearaudio, Rega planner 3 , Garrard 401, Oracle Dephi, Thorens td125 , Sme Tt , Avid , Project , Rega , Brinkman . Platine Verdier. That’s all I remember. I heard cost no object Airforce One and Kronos ( which was the best deck I ever heard )

[Isobarik]

Great thread to start and brings back some excellent memories and how the upgrades made a significant difference.

My original was an LP12 with an LVX (removable head shell) and a Supex MM. Used this with a NAD3020 and MK 1 Kans, yes it worked within reason when source first was everything.

Upgraded to Ittok/Asak and then had the Russ Andrews Torlyte kit fitted ( torlyte chassis, motor mod and armboard) took away the warmish sound and more detail. Finally ended LP12 journey at that stage due a marriage bust up and sold all including full Naim kir and Isobariks.

Years later bought an LP12 off the yellow ad’s for £175, not a total basket case but close, LVX not bolted down to armboard, deck sites on slide out shelf in a unit and bearing completely shot.

Spent a wonderful educational 6 months rebuilding as funds allowed, new plinth, new inner platter and bearing ( pre -cirkus) new armboard and all other suspension bits. Added a Valhalla, Ittok and Goldring cartridge (1042?) and loved the end result

Sold it when we moved a small cottage along with LP collection and moved to CD, would I have another one, in a heart beat. Not the cost but arthritis in both hands makes we wary of handing tone arm etc .

[indexical]

i bought my lp12 new mid 80s i think from grahams on pentonville road when they were 100 yards from my london flat. at that time sounded more involving than cd. std lp12 fluted plinth ittok and i think k9. used as main source for many years but as lps became less available inevitably added cd. never really got on with cd and hifi took a backseat to radio listening. 6 years ago i dipped a toe into streaming with a muso2 more recently replaced hifi with 222/350s and got tt serviced with a few minor upgrades but basically still my 80s original + project rcm i love the opportunities streaming brings to enjoy new-to-me music but there is something special about playing an lp - it is an event that i find myself more involved in than with streaming. roughly 2 years in i haven’t bought any extra lps - new or s/h - but am starting to browse record stores on the rare occasions i am passing. i will never upgrade the tt to latest top spec - i fear losing the magic of the sound i know but expect to continue enjoying the tt until i reach the stage where it becomes chalanging or i can no longer hear the difference

[stuart.ashen]

I had several dems of the Linn early 80s. I just couldn’t get on with that bass hump. It made everything sound overblown to my ears. I bought a Xerxes and found it to be excellent.

Move forwards to 2016 and I eventually bought an LP12. It actually sounded very much like my old Roksan with tight but tuneful bass. Sadly the Xerxes power supply had died and Roksan at that time wouldn’t repair it…

[Brian]

@Td160man

Hi, bought my LP12 Basik in 1982 from Nairn HiFi in Inverness. Also bought a Nad Amp (3040?) and speakers (cannot recall the make). This replaced a stacked Technics system. I was enthralled by the sound playing albums such as Genesis - And Then There Were Three, Meatloaf - Bat Out Of Hell, Pink Floyd etc.

Roll on a few years and a few house moves (various parts of the UK) to 1985 and I introduced a Yamaha CD player to the set up. The LP12 sounded better but the ease of playing CDs sealed it for me. In 1987 I procured second hand Ruark Broadswords speakers which improved the SQ with the LP12 still the better sounding.

Around the early 1990’s I replaced the Nad amp with an Arcam integrated amp to give another step up in SQ. Yet after more house moves (including Latin America for a number of years), in 2008 I changed the amp over to Cyrus with Dynaudio speakers. In 2012, I decided to have the LP12 serviced and following advice of the dealer in London, upgraded the LP12 with Trampoline base, Hercules power supply, Cirkus bearing, RB7 tone arm with Dynavector DV20X2 cartridge. I also changed over to Cyrus power amp. I also added a Naim HDX player with Martin Logan ESL speakers. The LP12 sounded great and was still ahead of the CD SQ. I loved the ability of HDX to rip all the CDs.

In 2016 when I retired and moved to Portugal, I changed over to Naim 252/300 pre/power amp and Naim stageline. The LP12 still was ahead of the sound from the HDX. Failure of the HDX around 2020, led me to add an Innuos Zenith mk3 with a Chord Qutest DAC. The LP12 still had an edge - just.

Last year I changed to a Holo Audio May KTE DAC. I now think the Innuos/Holo May SQ is ahead of the LP12 - however may be its time to have the LP12 serviced again??

[ewemon]

John the owner wouldn’t have had the Linn and NAIM dealership if it wasn’t for a little trick I played on both companies. We used to laugh like hell about it. I used to set up systems for him but we had parted company just before he moved into Inverness.

I got my first and only Sondek from Ivor at Linn late 70’s along with a pair of Kans (I hated those speakers with a vengeance). Got rid of them asap. Any mods that came along I did myself but when cd came along I moved the t/t into a closet in the early 90’s which it stayed for many years and moves before I sold it along an Ittok and Koetsu cartridge for £100 to a friend about a couple of years ago. My friend got it serviced and the only issue it had was to replace the arm bearings.

[Murmur]

Big topic - I hope you have plenty of reading time

I could write pages but will try to keep it to a few paragraphs.

First was in 1989 (Valhalla/Akito/K9) into Exposure XV integrated amp and Linn Kan II speakers.

Had one ever since, sometimes up to three. Only compared to Rega P10 and Simplex II at home.

Steadily upgraded to top-spec in around 2010. Then bought ‘89-spec Valhalla/Ittok deck for home office setup, connected it to the main system, and realised it was so much more engaging than the modern deck The same highly experienced/reputable Linn dealer setup both decks.

Slowly downgraded the top spec deck one element at a time. Discovered the biggest issue to my enjoyment was the Cirkus bearing (introduced in ‘93). I hate that thing. Later compared black liner to Karousel and preferred the older bearing by some margin. I’m talking musical enjoyment here - not the presentation which of course all LP12 upgrades improve upon.

Last comment is that I seem to prefer decks when they are from a single point in time. I’ve found there is a synergy of components that way. Now use an 1989-spec deck (Valhalla/Ittok/K9 body/VM95EN stylus) in the office and 1992-spec deck (Lingo/Ekos/Krystal) in the main system.

A late 80’s deck should work well since you like the TD160 in your system. Try to get a Valhalla that’s been serviced by Class A using Linn-supplied components. Buying from a Linn dealer with a very good reputation for LP12 work is also a good idea as they will know how to check the main bearing, motor, arm, etc. and provide the best setup. There’s at least half a dozen I’d use in the UK depending upon your location, but I’ve heard of less reputable ones selling Linn arms with stuffed bearings or providing poor setup.

[LindsayM]

Option 4.

First heard the LP12 at the Swiss Cottage hi-fi show in 1982, coincidentally whilst discussing cars and John Coltrane with Julian V in the Naim room, so didn’t really form a view. However, a few weeks later, I went to a demonstration at a North West London dealer of a LP12/Ittok vs Michell/Mayware, which was conducted blind with both turntables behind a screen playing through a Naim pre/power combination. There were approximately 12 people in the room and on a ratio of I guess four to one the Michell won out.

Weirdly, though several years later, 1985, I ended up with an Ariston RD80/Linn LVX/K9 but that was probably down to the proximity of a really good dealer near where I lived, paired with a Rotel amplifier and Heybrook speakers it was great music. I say weirdly because there was a direct lineage between the Ariston and Linn TTs resulting in legal issues, which I won’t explore any further here. In the ensuing period I demoed the LP 12 on several occasions, but was never convinced that it offered more than I had with the Ariston, but of course LP 12 configuration is a player here.

The following years because of family commitments there was an embargo on hi-fi expenditure! By 2005 I was in a position to think about some upgrades just as the motor on the Ariston died and I had just purchased a Naim 282/200 with CDX2/XPS. As an interim purchase, I acquired a nice Rega P25 but after a while sort something better. Extensive home demonstrations, including the LP12 (Akkurate level), Rega P9, Avid Volvere, Michell Gyro and Xerxes 20+. All were good music makers but to these ears the Avid and Roksan were very considerably ahead of the pack in terms of dynamics, rhythm, musical coherency, to to be honest as good as the LP12 undoubtably was, I failed to understand it being seen as a natural partner for Naim amplification. After further consideration, and dare say deliberation! I settled on the Xerxes, now Vertere modified, and John Coltrane has never been so good!

[LindsayM]

@stuart.ashen

Move forwards to 2016 and I eventually bought an LP12. It actually sounded very much like my old Roksan with tight but tuneful bass

Keel or Kore at play. Funny thing (about to hit the controversy button!) Linn owners now lauding the modern variants seemingly in denial about the previous failings, yes it’s now closer to the Roksan and Avid sound!

[stuart.ashen]

Kore at that time Lindsay, but Keel now. I expect I would have liked the newer Xerxes but poor after sales care did it for me. Also my long suffering dealer is also a Linn dealer. The upgrades do take you to a cleaner and perhaps even digital place in some respects but the Linn still communicates to me at least in a coherent way.

[Dan_M]

I bought my LP12 around 9 years ago. For me it’s option 2. Numerous upgrades!

It started off with a black ash plinth which had been sanded down and refinished in a maple colour. It matched my Fraim shelving which is maple and ash.

It had an Akito arm, Goldring 1042 cartridge, valhalla power supply and pre-Cirkus bearing. The first things to be done were a Lingo 1 fitted and the Akito rebuilt by Audio Origami, who upgraded it. I got the Lingo 1 fitted as I wanted to play 45s with ease. I used a Graham Slee MM phonostage to start. This was now a lovely, serviced turntable. My dealer recommended a Cirkus bearing and Kore.

After getting those bits done the LP12 was left like that for a few years.

Next changes were Karousel bearing as per dealer recommendation, cart change from MM to MC Dynavector XX2 MkII, Tom Evans The Groove + MRX power supply phono stage, Ekos 2 tonearm, Trampolin 2 fitted. This really lifted things to a whole new level. The LP12 sounded superb at this mid spec level.

About a year later I was very ill, diagnosed with Stage IV terminal cancer and decided to take my LP12 to Klimax Level. This was Klimax Radikal 2 power supply, Urika I, Kandid cart, Keel, Ekos SE/1 as well as having the Karousel already.

A year after that new top plate, Walnut fluted plinth, new lid and hinges all fitted.

So now none of the original parts remain. It’s a new turntable built with new and some used parts. It does sound epic! I thoroughly enjoy my LP12 and always have done.

The sweet spot was the middle ground Kore, Karousel, Ekos 2, Dynavector cart, Lingo 1. I would have stayed put but did a host of upgrades as part of combatting ill health.

The upgrades and my system became my solace in dark times! The LP12 has not been without problems with Ekos SE/1 having to be rebuilt by Linn.

I have enjoyed all the different variants of the LP12. The first entry point was a wonderful turntable once the Akito was fixed. The LP12 is not for eveyone as there are so many variables, and potential issues. Tonearms have been my problem, other than that the LP12 has been reliable.

[Stormane]

Thankfully things have evolved since then

[JasVerlen]

I have used my LP12 for over 35 years now. Purchased the basic model with Ittock in the late 80s.

Now it is a different table. Woodsong plinth, Karousel, Lingo4, Kore, Aro, Krystal. I think i am in the sweet spot re performance to price and i love listening to it every day hour after hour.

It really is a true classic for very good reason.

Only concern is support. I used to live in a state with a dealer who is probably the best set up man in the US. Now i have retired and moved far away. As long as the krystal is around i will just replace it as it wears and the suspension will be fine. It does not go out of adjustment. But if one day i need to set it up with a different cartridge that could be a problem.

[Stormane]

I have kept it and done numerous upgrades. Now its keel, radikal 2 and a brand new Kandid. This has made it a much better turntable. I am listening to more music now than ever.

[Td160man]

Thank you ever so much for reply and had exactly the same experience re the roksan . Pleased you are enjoying the Linn

[Td160man]

I just want to say thank you for all your replies. You chaps really put the effort in

[Clive]

@JasVerlen

But if one day i need to set it up with a different cartridge that could be a problem.

I’m not sure that should be such an issue if, as you say, you’re confident to change the Krystal for a direct replacement. Since there’s no adjustment on the Aro, there can be no overhang issues, especially if you stick with Linn three point mount cartridges. The only challenge (minor one) might be adjusting pillar height to set VTA. This is only to avoid dropping it in the plinth and not over tightening the retaining screw. My tip here would be to stick a small piece of tape at the top of the pillar before unscrewing. Make the adjustment, nip the screw tight, remove the tape and check VTA. Repeat until you’re happy the arm is parallel to the surface of the record.

[JasVerlen]

Clive that’s helpful thank you. I have already bought a new krystal to replace my current one … which probably has a year or less left in it. So assuming i have no trouble removing the current one and installing the new one should have me covered for 5 years. It is only if i have to replace with a cart of different weight that i will have a challenge getting the suspension right…that does have me concerned but i will deal with that when the time comes.

[Clive]

I doubt that’s so much a problem, unless you install some house brick of a cartridge, of course! Besides, I suspect playing 140g, 150g, 180g, or 200g records will have more of an effect on the suspension than a few grams from different cartridges.