Low level listening with the SN3

[Skeptikal]

@Vaksil
Hi.
The interconnects are all Linn Silver RCA and the speaker cables are Linn
K200 Black
Old K400 split.
My choice of cables may amuse or interest some but many comparisons confirmed easily identifiable differences for the better.

[PeakMan]

@viraf53

Listening to western classical music such 1812 is nearly impossible without disturbing the neighbours

I think the 1812 Overture is not really characteristic of most “western classical music”. After all, not that many pieces include a part for cannons. Telarc went through a rather macho phase of producing recordings with extreme dynamic range and big printed warnings. In their first 1812 I think they recorded the cannons separately and then mixed them in to the orchestral parts, with I suspect a bit of extra emphasis. They did something similar with Ferde Grofé’s Grand Canyon Suite where they mixed in a separately recorded thunderstorm. But not all orchestral recordings are like that.

Rather than give up on recorded music, why not listen to chamber and piano music? Or, if only orchestral music will do, Bach, Vivaldi, Mozart, Haydn, even Beethoven and Mendelssohn to name just a few, wrote masterpieces that are unlikely to test the volume limits of your hifi. I hope you recover your enjoyment in listening to music.

Roger

[Vaksil]

Well , before two days i got the sn3, working for 48 houres now, i am satisfied from the low level volume, its ok, i got the naca 5 from the store so i can test it, very nice sound , but very hard to adress, look and feel like hardware store cables… i do have imbalance problem on low level volume, for now i letting it break in and follow this thing. I was very afreid that i will not like the SN3 sound compering the SN2 which i heard and love, all the talking about how it refine compare to the SN2 make me thought the sound will not be enough bold for me, but the SN3sound bold enough and the refinement add gentle flavor but not sweet, i glad its turn like that , i bought it with hearing it…
Now it seems that the speakers are the weak part in the chain, its tower Kef from the early 2000, but they sound very good and make me think how the new kef ( towers ) will work with the amp.

[Vaksil]

How the senstivity relate to the unbalance
Do you say that 90db senstivity speakers tend to suffer from this problem more then 86 db speakers?

You have a chance to check the previous pot with the new speakers .

Which speakers you have, which music you listen to

Thanks

[Suedkiez]

In principle, a higher-sensitivity speaker will play louder at the same level of the volume pot, compared with a lower sensitivity speaker. Or in other words, the tendency will be for the volume pot to be at a higher level with a lower sensitivity speaker. Therefore, a particular pot’s low-level unbalance (each pot differs a bit within a range) is more likely to be revealed with higher-sensitivity speakers.

However, there are many other factors to this (room, listening distance) and it should usually not be a problem even with 90 dB speakers unless the particular pot is very affected and the low-volume unbalance is still noticeable at around 8 o’clock - it seems not very common but it happens, in which case Naim should be able to help. This whole low-volume unbalance thing as been discussed ad nauseam in many threads, some of them very recent. Based on your description, this is not what I am foremost worried about.

What seems very odd is that you seem to be saying that a 1 or 2 degree change of the volume pot leads to an extreme difference in volume

[Vaksil]

I have same unbalance that you already describe before, at 8 oclock volume the balance pot point to 14:30
וf i will turn up the volume it will fix

So you say that Naim is recognize on that problem? And repair/ replacing the pot ?

So what are your speakers and cables , you didnt answered

[Suedkiez]

I have to correct myself as I made a mistake in this sentence:

@Suedkiez

What seems very odd is that you seem to be saying that a 1 or 2 degree change of the volume pot leads to an extreme difference in volume

I had confused you with someone else in another thread and another balance-related problem. Sorry, please disregard this.

@Vaksil

So you say that Naim is recognize on that problem? And repair/ replacing the pot ?

They did for me, see this post and Richard’s post linked from there:

252/sc -> 552dr

Ah I see, dB measured in an app. I always go by imaginary “o’ clock” positions on the volume dial. The thing is that each pot is different. Naim grades them and the 552 is supposed to get the best, Richard once wrote in some post about this much-discussed issue. As mentioned in a post above, my new 252 started to get unbalanced at 8 o’clock, which with 90 dB speakers is not all that low volume. Was super annoying because at night I had to rebalance it with the balance knob, which changes the o…

@Vaksil

So what are your speakers and cables , you didnt answered

I did further up in this thread:

Low level listening with the SN3

You are right of course, there are many factors. I just tried how my pot, speakers and room behave now: At 50 dB and sitting 2.5 m from speakers, my pot is now balanced, however my speakers are just 86 dB sensitivity. At 40 dB there is a very slight imbalance that I can live with as I never use volume this low. That’s with the improved pot. With my previous 90 dB speakers and the original pot, 50 dB were annoyingly unbalanced, and it started at higher volume already. Unfortunately, the balan…

My speaker specs:

Potential Speaker Upgrade

I already had them here for a home demo, and oh yes they work well I’ll keep you in the loop, but now that I’m home and not on the phone anymore … *digs in pictures* … [IMG_20210821_191838 (2)] They are also available straight, but the curved version is a bit better (more decoupling between modules, slightly better phase alignment), and visually more interesting to me as well. Tweeter 26mm ring radiator with wave guide, from Peerless with additional changes Mid driver 150mm …

Maybe these posts and the others around them might also be help

252/sc -> 552dr

I think you should talk to Naim support. As mentioned before, my 252 also had the problem at levels that I consider normal late at night (it started at 8 o’clock on the volume dial with 90 db sensitivity speakers). After the pot change it occurs only at much lower levels that I don’t use, and probably nobody will (except with very sensitive speakers maybe). I understand you aren’t happy, neither was I (and the demo 252 that I tried before I bought mine didn’t exhibit the issue at all, so no way…

252/sc -> 552dr

Ah I see, dB measured in an app. I always go by imaginary “o’ clock” positions on the volume dial. The thing is that each pot is different. Naim grades them and the 552 is supposed to get the best, Richard once wrote in some post about this much-discussed issue. As mentioned in a post above, my new 252 started to get unbalanced at 8 o’clock, which with 90 dB speakers is not all that low volume. Was super annoying because at night I had to rebalance it with the balance knob, which changes the o…

You will find many more by searching for balance + volume + pot, for instance

[david1111]

You can get a db meter on Amazon for 50 to 70 dollars CAD whatever that is in your money.

[Vaksil]

hi update about the unbalance problem
i turn over mine local dealer which is also the importer of naim
i explain the balnce problem, this was the first time you listen about this problem
i explained that this is a common problem on SN3 when working with high sentivety speakers (mine 91 db), he said ok i think i understand the porblem.
after one week he invite me to replace the volume pot , yes that right the volume pot, and since then the balanced issue disappear…
great service naim have !

[Suedkiez]

Thanks for the update

@Vaksil

after one week he invite me to replace the volume pot , yes that right the volume pot,

Yes of course, it was always about the volume pot. I am glad you got it sorted and can enjoy now

[Vaksil]

Now my main efforts to find speakers, my exist speakers doesn’t match and it sound like there very thick Vail in front of them ( I using naca 5)
Is there is recommendtion about seal box or down firing speakers which match the SN3

[Suedkiez]

What are your speakers now and are you looking for bookshelf or floorstanders? I don’t have any recommendations for you, but this is what other members will ask

[PeakMan]

Proac Tablette 10 are popular here, particularly in Signature version, and are sealed boxes. So are the entry level ATC speakers, but ATCs might not be an ideal choice for low level listening.

But you say the sound is “veiled”, so I would be looking at the front end, and not just the speakers. An amp such as SN3 deserves a source of commensurate quality to hear what it is capable of. What is your current source?

Roger

[Vaksil]

My speakers are kef q75 and they worked heavenly with my vintage sansui reciver, I decide to order SN3 after a weekend listening with SN2 and this amp match my own speakers, I don’t remember if I used nordost cable or I use my old quite simple mo stereo cable (I think I use the old monster) but there was a perfect match with the SN2 so I was think thee will be match also with the SN3 and I was happy because I really love those speakers.
The source is the same source which me fly when I heard the SN2, is streamer cambridge cxn v2 dac is denafrips eres 2. Now the new amp and the naca 5 isn’t deliver at all the same sound as it was before, it seems that the new amp asking for different speakers.
I want towers I love bass an body to the sound , just not a speakers which will be fussy with placement. On…e of the will be close to a big window of mine porch

[moomin]

Supernait + Neat Exstras. Musical heaven.

[Mr.M]

PMC with their front firing ATL design are worth a listen, I’ve used multiple PMC floorstander speakers with Supernaits including SN2 and SN3.
I still own a pair of OB1i, others likely have more recent models used with a Supernait they can comment on.