Lucky NAIM novice seeks help

Hi,

Q1. As has been said already, your best bet is to try the Allaes on the amp of a friend whose amp is known to be working. If you find the tweeters are defective, email Naim and establish if replacements are available.

Q2. The work at the dollar price quoted is unknowable for me as a Brit. All I can say is that a friend of mine who runs a Naim 500 set (think Naim equivalent of Bell 206 Long Ranger, or similar) once said to me that if he couldn’t have his 500 set, he would have a NAC122X, NAP150X and Allaes. Not dissimilar to your set.

Hope that helps.

Chris

Edit: Oh, and you probably need a new cartridge on the turntable too. Otherwise, all good.

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Jordy hi and welcome. I can’t add anything meaningful to the advice already provided but great story.

Good luck and enjoy your music.

Regards,

Lindsay

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A contrarian opinion, perhaps: The Stageline doesn’t need to be recapped, neither does the NAC112. The NAP150 may need to be recapped after almost 20 years (it’s the only component that carries high voltages/currents). As suggested above, borrow a pair of speakers and se if this intermittent issue is the speakers.

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Hello @Jordytodd and welcome. You have already received really excellent advice from others here who are much more knowledgeable about your kit than me. But as a fellow Canadian I will say that dealing with Focal Naim America in Montreal has been a good experience for me and for others on the forum. If you are happy with your Naim kit and intend to keep it then by all means get it serviced and repaired and continue to enjoy it as the cost does not seem excessive to me.

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Hello @Jordytodd . As @TabooKahuna says, the Focal/Naim dealer in Montreal is very good and can recap your amps nicely. I am also in Canada, btw. Do you have any other pair of speakers to connect up, just to ensure that the speakers you have are faulty? Once you have ascertianed that your old speakers need work, perhaps it’s time to buy a new pair of speakers. Totems work very well with Naim gear, as per @Mike_S ,and there are many very good used speakers, Totem included, on Canuck Audio Mart or CAM.
Best of luck.

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I would get the components serviced. After 20 years even the Preamp will need it. Unsure about the Stageline however. Your speakers may need replacement due to parts availability. Michel and the crew at Focal-Naim are great to deal with and will get your system up to speed in no time.

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Before diving in too far, “tapping on the speaker cures it” is indicative of a dry joint or loose connection either on the crossover or the Tweeters themselves. I would be very surprised if the tweeters were faulty. This something any competent local electronics tech should be able to diagnose for you without the hassle of sending things back to Naim.

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Thanks everyone for reading and contributing to help me make a decision about how to trouble shoot.
I do have a sentimental attachment to the system and have decided to recap the 150 112 and Stageline. I will try various amps on the Allaes and try to find a set of speakers to try on the amps before I send them away to determine if it is the speakers or the amp. If its the speakers I will look at repair or replacement.
Thanks again to this community for sharing knowledge and experience.

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I hope it all works out for you, @Jordytodd! Do let us know how it goes.

I used to own a Naim nac112x and 150X. I bought them new in 2004 with Ariva speakers.

I had the 150X serviced and re-capped by Darran of Class A in Sheffield for about £250 About four years ago, this made an improvement in sound quality. Darran’s site said that the Service and re-cap of the 150X with Naim parts made an upgrade of the amp vs when it was new.

I didn’t have the preamp recapped because it didn’t seem worth it for what is pretty modest Preamp. It might be worth getting an external power supply for it.

Also I owned Allaes for a very short time but they were battered and I couldn’t get them set up properly. I know they are a very capable speaker and if you can get them set up properly they can sound marvellous.

Hope this helps

Also look at total system set up inc supports and cable dressing

Once you’ve got the system running nicely again, the way forward is to replace the 112, which is the bottleneck in your system at the moment

Bassman92 has probably hit it right on the head.

If the amps were faulty, the sound from the speakers would be more likely to be distorted than cut out.

Dry joints or loose connections inside the speakers can lead to one or both drive units cutting out.

If you are confident with opening up the speakers (the drive units are most probably screwed in from the front), take out the bass unit (this is the easy way into the speakers) and have a look at the wiring and crossover. Soldered joints can fail, either on interconnecting wiring within the speaker cabinet or on the crossover board.

When you have the speakers open, you could (very carefully) try moving the individual internal wires to see if the tweeter cuts out or comes back. Alternatively, do a bit of tapping around inside the speakers and on the drive units, making sure you don’t use any metallic object that could short your signal and damage your amp. If you find a dry joint, these don’t always look bad (think “hidden disabilities”). They could look ok from the outside but not be making a good connection inside the solder.

As I am not familiar with the Allaes, I don’t know if they have push-on connectors inside the cabinet, but if there are push-ons, try pushing them back into place or wiggling them to clean them.

If you have access to a multimeter, you could try measuring the drive unit impedances but this will be affected by the crossover.

This sort of problem should be soluble with a systematic approach.

Try the following:

  • Swap the left speaker with the right, leaving the speaker wires where they are.
  • Put the speakers back where they came from and try swapping over the speaker cables.
  • Try different speakers with your existing amp
  • Try your speakers with a different amp

If the problem moves around when trying any of the above, it will point the culprit out. My money is on the speakers.

Lots of the other contributors have offered sensible advice about whether to upgrade or not, but unless you sort out the problem with the speakers, you won’t be able to sell them for a decent price.

One last thing. When you sort out the speaker problem, check the directionality of your system interconnect cables and speaker cables. If they are Naim, they are directional and this will affect the sound. Speakers are easy, there are arrows that point from amp to speaker. For the interconnects, look at the manual. If the interconnect cables are unmarked, try turning them round one at a time. If the sound improves, leave them that way. It is also worth unplugging all your cables and plugging them back in to clean the surfaces. A bit of wiggling may also help with the cleaning.

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Checking the crossovers on the Allaes is really easy as they are external.
Pull out the two connectors that go to the cabinets.
Unscrew the four screws around the black enclosure.
Have a good around on the back of the crossover PCB, paying particular attention to the termination of the two cables & the input sockets. Dry solder joints should be quite obvious.
If you see anything dodgy, have a chat with a friend who owns a soldering iron & knows how to use it.

The Allaes are great speakers, it would be a shame to write them off if it’s a simple fix.

Good luck!
Regards
Neil.

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Welcome to the mad house - someone from Naim will be round before Christmas to empty your bank account :grinning:

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Thanks for the mention Donniboi, I knew the 35 odd years spent in the electronics servicing industry would come in useful someday!

This is already becoming a rabbit hole i’m having a hard time turning away from!

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So I am making some progress (I think) I hooked the speakers up to a third amp, no change, tweeters still not working. I opened up both crossovers and both positive inputs are loose, other then that they look fantastic inside (im actually a little in awe at how nice it is in there as its been a while since ive worked on something that looks to be extremely well made). I hooked up the lower crossover output (the tweeter one) to another speaker and they are passing sound through that just not to either of MY tweeters. I would like to replace them but now the issue im running into is finding replacements for the part number on the current tweeters D2008/851100 which looks to be superseded by part number D2008/852100 but these look to have a 4 hole mounting pattern as opposed the the 3 hole in my current setup. Any ideas on where in Canada i could track down replacements?
Thanks again to everyone for their input it is really appreciated.

I can’t add anything that hasn’t already been posted, all I can add is welcome you lucky thing. :grin:

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You might need to be quick on that tweeter replacement. I can’t link it here, but have a look on the falcon acoustics website. They are a UK speaker and component vendor. That Scanspeak driver is being discontinued and it seems like they have a few of the last run left.

See also this thread:

Which is about the D2010, but I think I read that both drivers were affected, and that seems likely given what I read on the falcon acoustics site

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Thanks for that, I ordered a pair today. After some further investigation a it appears that the speaker wires that came with this setup were not original and seem smaller and shorter then what is recommended. Could I have damaged the 150 over the last 10 years? I am going to send everything in for service when I have the tweeters replaced so hopefully that would rectify any possible damage? Is there a hard and fast requirement for this setup?

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