As English is not my language, maybe bright is not the correct word. Then perhaps some hardness? Not always soft high frequencies?
“Duretés “ in french.
With right speakers, it’s ok generally. Anyway, Naim sound is full of wonderful characteristics, as urgency, life, drive, prat, organic sound and cohesiveness, a whole sound. But not the most refined on timbers.
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I understand the dilema, especially as these changes involve quite a bit of money.
What I’ve learned over time is that, while every element of a hi-fi system matters, the loudspeakers are the components that have the greatest impact on the final presentation.
Of course, the listening room has by far the biggest influence on the sound, IMO of course, but that’s another topic altogether.
With an unlimited budget, you can optimise everything: from the source to the speakers, including cables and even the power.
But with a limited budget, I’d put the bulk of the investment into the speakers.
I’ve spent quite a lot of time listening to the Hegel H590 with my Magico M2s. And honestly, it’s really good. I could live with it.
It’s obviously a long way from the 727/717 combo, but in the end… not that far away. If you see what I mean. The speakers are what really make the difference.
Classical music, and especially large-scale symphonic works, and piano, is extremely demanding on speakers. In fact, it’s almost a form of torture!
I’ve never listened to Pilium myself, but I’ve heard a lot of very positive things about them. Magico use their big mono blocks in their new listening room, so I imagine they’re in a similar vein to Soulution.
Yes, definitely try to listen to Soulution if you get the chance. Their new models are truly excellent, and very different from the earlier ones.
The 710 was incredibly transparent but lacked a bit of density; the 711 was warmer, more bottom-up in character.
But the 717 is something else altogether, ultra-transparent, ultra-detailed, yet still dense and coherent. Driven by the 727, it’s a genuinely surprising combo.
That said, you should also try the Naim 350s with the Magico A5. That could make a very nice pairing indeed!!
You won’t have any issues driving the Magico A or S series speakers.
It’s the M series, and the Magico M2 in particular, that are truly demanding.
And perhaps one last, more philosophical thought: I also listen to classical music, even large symphonic works, on my AirPods Pro 3, and it works just fine.
What I mean is that Naim, Pilium, Soulution, or anything else eventually does the job. We get used to it. And in the end, only the music remains. 
Cheers,
Thomas
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To my ears, listening through the super-neutral Magicos, I’d say that my 250DR twists the tone dial a bit to the left, not to the right. I hear it like a Marshall guitar amp voicing: some mid/low-mid push vs. a neutral tonal curve. Maybe a bit rolled off in the highs and a bit loose in the bass. (BTW, that’s a great sound color – rock was built on it!)
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Amen, brother.
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All I can add is that the synergy between amplifier and speaker is crucial.
The Magico’s are extremely capable, uncoloured with very low distortion and that leads to incredibly enjoyable listening.
I was listening to Agnes Obel’s The Curse, from the album Aventine. An outstanding recording capturing an incredible sonic space, literally feeling the air from the cello brush your skin. Wow!
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Focal speakers are more neutral than coloured, right?
Some hate them with Naim, other are on the moon.
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Yes FR.. the great difference is on the tweeter , beside their construction. Magica uses diamond beryllium. The difference in tweeter sound b/n the 2, which I heard on the same day, magico sounds much more sweet as far as the tweeter is concerned. Never sharp . Both are good but different in tweeter which makes them very different.
Magico tweeter are much more easier to listen to ..
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Magico M2 and Borresen M2 are 2 tiny and expensive speaker I wish to listen to. But out of my budget.
Sound Loft (Zurich)
I recently had the chance to compare the Magico M2 (which I own) with the new Magico M7.
Listening to the M7 is a show in itself.
When properly driven, they reproduce the scale and authority of a full symphony orchestra in a truly breathtaking way.
Unfortunately, they come at around 4 times the price of the M2, which are already in the €100k euros range.
That said, they are an absolute bliss to listen to.
It’s at this Zurich showroom (Sound Loft) that I bought my Soulution electronics and, of course, my speakers.
For those in the area, Michael, the owner, is genuinely welcoming and always happy to have visitors.
You can even bring your own electronics and try them on the speakers.
Cheers,
Thomas
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I have posted previously that I thoroughly enjoy my Magico speakers because I enjoy the way Naim colours the sound, and I don’t want a speaker which significantly colours it further. I think that works superbly for A and S series speakers, paired with up to and including Naim 500 series.
I listen to classical music and love the way it is portrayed by my system, but I also listen to many other genres and my focus is on overall enjoyment across a wide spectrum rather than absolute fidelity with a specific genre.
I think that for those looking for the next level of neutrality and clarity, such as the predominantly large classical orchestra listening aficionados, the M series comes into play. That said, I’m not sure they make too much sense until Statement (or it’s or non-Naim peers) level equipment is deployed.
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Hi Elfer,
Indeed, you’re right. The Magico M-series speakers are quite demanding.
The impedance curve of the M2 is a bit of a roller coaster in the lower frequencies, dropping to around 2.3 ohms between 74 Hz and 88 Hz.
So yes, with Naim electronics (anything other than the Naim Statement) the S and A series are clearly the better match.
I should probably have mentioned that Michael has both the S series and the A series in his showroom.
Cheers,
Thomas
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I heard the Magico S3 2023’s at Southwest Audio Fest in Dallas back in March of 2024, in the Synergistic Research Room (With SR power conditioner & music server, Ideon streamer/DAC, and Mac Pre/Power [monoblock] amps) for a few extended listening sessions and a full SR demo.
If they measure anything like the later-developed S5 2024’s (see John Atkinson’s measurements at Stereophile), they are a truly demanding load to drive. I’m a huge Pass Labs fan, but would never attempt to service the Magico’s with, say, an XA30.8 or INT60, nor with a 250DR.
BUT, that is more of a loudspeaker demand issue than any inherent deficiency in the above amps. I wouldn’t characterize it as Naim “colouring the sound” as much as the amps being driven out of their linear range via taxing phase angles and brutal EPDR. Neither the speakers nor the ampo are bad, but they are possibly a non-optimal match. Not too dissimilar from using a Shindo 300B SET…..great amp…bad combo.
This is where Graham, Harbeth, DeVore, Spendor, et al come in with models that are easier loads to drive.
E.g. I suspect we are under-indexing on the fact that happy amplifiers nearly always sound better. And, though it’s not a sin for a speaker to sound best with kilowatt-monos, it’s a thing that should be acknowledged.
Lastly, I was, and remain a huge fan of Magico. Sound is fantastic and the finishing is just superb. Immaculate, even.
SWAF 2024 pic (from my phone):
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The S5mk2 was more difficult to drive than the S3mk2 but both were perfectly manageable for Naim 300 & 500 series. As far as I can tell, the latest S3 isn’t any more difficult to drive than the mk2 but the new S5 seems to be somewhat more challenging.
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Looks like it’s down to these three amps to power the A5s:
Naim 350
MSB S202
Pilium Leonidas (used)
The 350s are fantastic, and they preserve the Naim sound. You get the full front edge of the music. But do I get the wood of the piano as well as the velvet-hammer-on-metal-strings?
The Pilium is sublime. However, it’s a freaking monster and tech support means sending it back to Greece. And it’s used so out of warranty.
I have not listened to the MSB yet.
@Protegimus and @thomas, I think you both have experience with Pilium … and perhaps MSB? What are your thoughts?
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Hi @Middle ,
I’ve tried Magico speakers with the following amplifiers:
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Naim 500 DR (full seven-box setup)
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Soulution 330 Integrated
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Soulution 511 monoblocks
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Soulution 711 stereo
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Soulution 701 monoblocks
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Soulution 717 stereo (the recently released one)
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Hegel H590 stereo
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Accuphase (their large stereo amplifier, I can’t recall the exact model)
As you can see, it’s a relatively short list.
That said, the amplifiers I’ve actually used at home, in my own listening room, with my own speakers, are:
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Naim 500 DR
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Soulution 711
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Hegel H590
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Soulution 717 , which I’ve just bought.
What’s interesting is that I’ve also listened to both the Soulution 711 and the Soulution 717 (which are quite different from one another) in a room other than my own, but with the same speakers (at Sound Loft in Zürich).
What I ultimately take away from all this is that the listening room and the loudspeakers have a greater impact on the final result than the amplifier.
Of course, the amplifier does bring a certain “character” to the sound, that’s undeniable.
Nevertheless, what really makes the difference is the speaker itself and the room it’s in.
For me, speaker choice is absolutely central!
Some speaker brands, if not most, do colour the sound. I’ll name one, as it’s well-known it colours sound : Sonus Faber.
The least coloured, most neutral speakers I’ve heard are clearly Magico.
The Naim + Magico pairing is simply superb.
You see more and more of these combinations, from entry to very high-end systems like Magico M series with Naim Statement.
The nicest setup I’ve come across was: Taiko Olympus XDMI + Naim Statement + Magico M7.
If what you’re after is a system with very little coloration, Soulution is a very good option.
Their latest integrated, the Soulution 331, is genuinely excellent, and you can add a DAC to it. They’re very proud of it (and that’s straight from their chief engineer).
Interestingly, Soulution doesn’t sell that many of them. Their biggest seller by far is the 717, which sells like hot cakes!
That said, Naim is also a great choice. As mentioned above, the Naim + Magico combination is always a winner.
I also do not doubt that MSB’s offering is excellent as well.
But, there’s one thing to bear in mind, though : you’re based in the US.
If you buy second-hand and something goes wrong, make sure the equipment can actually be serviced in the US.
I’m not sure I’ve been much help. Sorry about that…
Cheers,
Thomas
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Hi Middle,
Apologies for my input as you have not asked me directly……….
If you are thinking of amplifiers at that level and given you are in the USA? I would personally pick the ATI 6000 (Stereo version is ATI 6002) for its technical performance at a lower price point for accuracy to drive the Magico A5s.
I would also recommend considering the new Linn Klimax 500 stereo (- edit this is an error, it is mono) model if you can get your idea to accept switched mode power supplies and internal fans in amplifiers?
Edit: just checked and the Linn 500 is a mono - not stereo. So that is a less good proposition.
Pilium or ATI 6002 or perhaps Sanders Magtech is the way to go?
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@Thomas and @Edmund-of-Essex thank you! Much appreciated.
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Best Wishes for the New Year!
@Middle the recommendation is straightforward from me, but I’ve had the pleasure of living with the Leonidas for nearly six months. I also bought used, so my unit is 2024 spec.
Bob Visintainer at Rhapsody mentioned they have a service centre for Pilium in New York.
The Magico’s really came alive with the Pilium. I wouldn’t spend time on alternatives unless a compromise has to be made, I simply wouldn’t want to leave that level of experience untapped.
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I think @Protegimus has brought you some good news!
So Pilium remains very much a viable option.
I hope you’ll find exactly what you’re looking for among the many excellent integrated amplifiers available.
Enjoy the journey! 
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