Mains cables shootout on Naim full 500DR system including ND555, 2 x 555PSDRs and 552DR

[Mike_S]

I given the power plug layout for my system some more thought based on your findings Dan and have made these changes:

The Naim 300PS/552PS/555PS were piggy-backed to a single wall socket. I now have the 300PS on seperate wall socket only. The 552PS is also now on a separate wall socket with 555PS on another wall socket with the Farad 3 piggy-backed to it - keeping the 552 analogue and the 555 and Farad 3 digital on seperate wall sockets, Each Naim PS is on a Naim Powerline.

The Totem Storm sub was on seperate wall socket with the Heed Obselik PS (for the headphone and phono stage) piggy backed, they are now on separate wall sockets each.

The Linn Lingo 4 and Naim Core are each on seperate sockets.

Everything else with a SMPS is on the Isotek Sirius power board with that plugged into a seperate wall socket.

Fortunately when I fitted this room as an office I put in lots of wall sockets on a single circuit to the fuse box.

The results are an even more solid bass, detail, weight, scale and this delightful headroom that just has me pushing the volume more and more.

This thread has been a great discussion, so much can be achieved with power optimism - it’s definitely something that requires attention to detail and leads to getting the best from the system.

[Dunc]

Well been using this puratin ultimate cable for a almost a week now, and decided to pop my own cable back in this afternoon.
Now i thought that the puratin certainly made a difference when i first popped it in and the real question is do i still feel that now.
Well the answer is no, i popped my home made power cable back in and if anything preferred it, but any difference was so small that i certainly wouldn’t be able to pick them out.
So with that i tried it on my Vivaldi dac, again the results the same, no real difference and if anything i preferred my own cable.

So not really sure what else to say really. Apart from for me and my system its how i found power cables to be years ago, when i first fitted my balanced power supply. I found then that i couldn’t tell any real difference between the good quality ones i made and anything else that tried, that being expensive and even more expensive power cables. Maybe its the power supply doing its job so well that a meter of cable isn’t going to make any bit off a difference or could be my gear isn’t bothered by power cables, or both? But what ever it is the puratin is going back.
Plus once again i won’t worry about power cables.
Cheers dunc

[Dan_M]

I have had a weekend with my kids so haven’t listened to any music until now. I am just listening to it as it is.

Interesting to hear your findings. You were really enthusiastic at the start. It sounds to me like the classic placebo affect in that you want it to sound better and so it does! Then the reality is that it doesn’t at all.

Going back to my system, everything is laid out. I have the BPS, the dedicated mains, the separate radial from mains consumer unit, all the cables and all the blocks. It’s a case of sorting it through and deciding what sounds best!

It will take time!

[garcon]

After spending my fair share of trial and error (and some cash) on this, I can say the following:

• well designed and screened mains cables, as well as the choice of which one goes where, has been critical. They manage dynamic current requirements and noise coming in, or being spread across between mains cables, to speaker cables and all other interconnects. However, mains cables do not need to be very expensive to do a great job, just good quality and well selected for the job and system.
• no SMPSs in the same block or near the hifi
• to me the choice of mains block has been surprisingly (and increasingly) totally essential to sustain vigour and life into everything and keep noise down. Previously, years ago, I had a mains block costing something like a couple of hundred and quite more expensive mains cables, while over time I’ve ended up reducing the cost of my mains cables to what I’d call a good quality sensible mix, however I’ve invested a lot more in the best block I could afford. Definitely my recommendation now.
• a dedicated spur for me has not been practical but is clearly a foundation - however not taking away the need for the above. I will add it when next I have a chance.

Of course, none of this has to be your choice or solution, just what’s worked for me.

[Dunc]

I guess you want to hear inpovement and you think it must be better as look at it, and the cost, etc.
But going backwards it soon showed me the truth. Nothing.
The only thing that would be different is my bank account, especially as i need 7.

Very happy to stick

[Dan_M]

I think listening to your system the front end streaming sounds so incredible it’s difficult to surpass with a Puritan Ultimate. I think higher end cables may make a difference. But it gets to the point where is it worth it when system sounds so good?

[Mike_S]

@Dan_M has nearly completed his next project, it’s going to sound EPIC!

[JonoB]

@Mike_S

@Dan_M has nearly completed his next project, it’s going to sound EPIC!

[Geko]

@Dan_M

I think higher end cables may make a difference.

With all the cables we’ve played around with, over the last month or so, I’m forced into the same conclusion, and in many respects my findings just reflect what I discovered with ethernet cables. I think you can group mains cables in much the same way. There are the sub £1,000 mains cables of which I’d consider Naim’s Powerline as probably one of the best I’ve tried. I think you can also group home made cables in this category (I have several available to me) but none have really beaten a simple Powerline in my system.

Those that have experimented with ethernet cables will have probably played with the ‘usual suspects’ like BJC, Catsnake, Chord, Vodka, Diamond etc. all of which tend to come in at under £1,000. Then there are a few that have tried some of the more exotic cables like Shunyata, Ansuz and Chord Music. I happened to have settled on the Shunyata Sigma and I’ve still not heard an ethernet cable that beats it for all the musical elements I value.

The same has been true with the exotic power leads Dan and I have tried. Both the Nordost and the Sigma X certainly took my system to a different level, much like the ethernet cable did. As I’ve said before, I don’t know what else I could have tried or done to my system that would have given me the same increase in performance? However, I don’t yet have a BPS but I do have - at least I think I have - a pretty clean incoming mains supply already. I’m miles from my nearest neighbour, my supply comes direct from overhead HT lines via a dedicated transformer directly to the property and then into the house supply and my dedicated mains spur. I will try a BPS at some point just to answer the question but at the moment I’m really enjoying what the Sigma X is delivering.

[Dunc]

Years ago i tried power cables and didn’t think they added anything, back then they were expensive, much more than the puritan.
I went with the puritan as its meant to help remove vibrations and i through that might bring something along with the furutech ends. But it didn’t.
So that’s me done with power cables i feel. The ones i made up look to be more than up to the job, but i did use good cable, and soldered the wires in with very good silver solder, so probably done a very good job, and it’s showing?

[Dan_M]

Some lovely galvanised conduit work. Placing of the turntable a bit high, but @Geko may be able to reach!

[Mike_S]

I’ve gone down another rabbit hole with the help of AI - optimising wall socket zones and double pair socket configurations in each zone.

I’ve actually been very lucky, as I had my office re-wired when it was renovated many years ago. I’ve been through my photos of the work being done and established that I have three power zones in this room, each on a dedicated circuit back to a single 20A C curve RCD on the fuse box.

This means that I will have:

Zone 1 with the Totem Storm sub (Naim Powerline) and Heed PS on one double socket.

Zone 2 with the 552PS and 555PS/Farad 3 (piggy-backed) on the first pair of sockets, 300 PS on the second pair (last plug empty).

Zone 3, Lingo 4 on first pair, Naim Core on second pair and Isotek Sirius power board with everything else (SMPSs).

That is mostly set up, but the Sirius is still in Zone 2 whilst I get a longer Supra lead to connect it to Zone 3.

I’ve also removed the RCA leads I had on my Panasonic UP9000 to the 552 as I use it as a transport into the ND555, apparently this removes an earthing conflict with the Naim boxes?

I need a lie-down.

[Protegimus]

@Dan_M you mentioned plugging the IEC connectors in - Shunyata Research provide a support with their cables that secures them and also lets you see that they are pushed home correctly.
You can buy them separately, Eaton Tripp Lite PLC14YW Plug-Lock Insert, I’ve now got them on all my cables. They are also available for C19 connectors (ideal for the Puritan or power blocks).

One thing to bear in mind for the UK is mains fuses - Shunyata fit the AMR Gold fuse and although very good quality, the Synergistic Research Holographic are to me, essential at this level. I’ve had the Sigma-X NR since March, outstanding.

[JonoB]

As they all good back to the same 20A circuit breaker, doesn’t this mean that they’re basically the same circuit (and any benefit of separation for noise isolation between the various boxes) would be null?

I’m going through the same calculation at present - looking at photos of our renovation back in 2014 I can see that the separate circuit for the stereo that I asked for is actually an extension of the circuit for the TV.

On the upside for you it may make it easier to plug things in.

I’m talking with our electricians about getting a proper separate circuit now…

[Mike_S]

@JonoB

As they all good back to the same 20A circuit breaker, doesn’t this mean that they’re basically the same circuit (and any benefit of separation for noise isolation between the various boxes) would be null?

There are two factors here, and bear in mind that the NZ power configuration is different than the UK.

The circuit breaker should be close to your earthing rod, so noise arriving at the RCD will discharge to the earthing rod rather than discharging back down another circuit connected to the RCD.

The other consideration is treating each circuit to the RCD as a zone. Try to have just the Naim PSs on a single zone, other devices with LPS on another zone and then use a third zone for everything with a SMPS and run all of these of a decent filtering power board. Don’t use a cheap HPM of hardware store power board with a filter, as they filter the noise onto the earth. If you have a Uniti Core, it has a LPS, but the drive can dump noise onto the circuit, so that is better on the filtering power board.

There are a few tricks you can use with the Tapon plugs if you have those on your Naim boxes. It all depends on how many wall sockets you have etc.

If you have more information about your layout I’m happy to comment more. From what you have said, it sounds like getting the TV onto a filtered powered board would be a good idea? How are you Naim boxes plugged in?

[naimophile]

Wanting to get this but no XLR

[Taake]

You should give Esoteric a try, especially their Grandioso series. Fully balanced from end-to-end.

[naimophile]

I intend to keep all in one box for a super integrated amp and work on dcs boxes to keep all simple. I still need space for all my nordost boxes (power supply, qkore, switch ) , including a QB reference power distribution, and a BPS.
I has an esoteric CDP, and I am keeping it as a transport to my dcs .

The 790 is too big ,as big as a soulution and pilium, unless I put it on the floor which I don’t want to due to space .

[Geko]

It was my turn to host @Dan_M last night at Geko Grange. It’s also the first time Dan has heard DBL’s, so I was quite interested in his feedback. One of his first comments was how well they blended into the room. He said they looked a lot smaller than he thought they’d be.

He gave the system a quick check over but in fairness it’s like looking in a mirror at his system, the only really noticeable change is the colour of the my LP12 plinth, Aro arm, Naim phono stage and power supply. The only other exception was the rather ‘python’ like profile of my Sigma X snaking its way from my wall socket to my Chord block.

With a nice glass of Malbec in hand we sat down for a warm up listen. I wanted him to hear how well the DBL’s do guitar, so played him John van der Veer’s ‘Cantora’. This is a lovely emotional track that separates two guitars playing almost on opposite sides of the room. Next up was a smoky ‘jazz club’ laced atmosphere with Chantel Chamberland’s version of ‘I put a spell on you’, which has her voice backed by a simple guitar, piano and drums. However, her vocals also seem to contain the echo of the venue acoustics, which adds a great touch of realism. By now the 500 was starting to properly warm up, so I upped the tempo with Jason Isabell and the 400 Unit’s ‘In memory of Elizabeth Reed’. This is a long track that starts off at quite a slow pace and continues to build until the band goes absolutely mental. Played loud this is a real test of system grip.

At this point we took a little break and shot off to my local curry venue where we were treated like the only customers in the restaurant (as we were the only customers in the restaurant). Well, it was late on a Monday night!

Back at the house it was time to chill out to a bit of prog rock, so we lit up some Led Zeppelin 2 and Pink Floyd and then it was pretty much midnight and time for Dan to make the long drive home.

I’ll have to let Dan tell you if he was suitably impressed with what DBL’s do but all in all it was a really great evening talking about all things music and hifi.

[Dan_M]

As @Geko says we had a fantastic evening. Thank you for inviting me and for a thoroughly enjoyable time.

So Geko Grange is an impressive Oak Framed building. The listening room is quite large with the DBL and full 500DR series system. Apart from speakers, subs, switch, SACD player our systems are very very similar.

However, the room and speakers give an entirely different presentation. I have not heard DBLs or even seen them before. They looked quite small to my eyes albeit the room is large with a high vaulted ceiling. The speakers looked right in the space.

So after a look around and a catch up we listened to some of Geko’s music and he showed me what the DBLs can do. They excel at midrange. The highs and bass are not what they do. But the midrange is what they are all about.

The presentation of the music is highly realistic and has a ‘live’ sound and very organic in nature.

They sound particularly good with guitar, piano and vocals. They have a woody sound and you can hear the wood resonate from the guitar as the strings are plucked. It feels like the band is playing in the room. So after listening to a few tracks we went for a curry. It was a lot to take in.

On return I chose some Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd as I thought progressive rock would sound great in the DBLs. And they did. The DBLs have an emotional, highly resolving sound. Listening to Echoes I was taken away into a world of darkness, followed by light. A psychodelic journey, perfectly played by the DBLs. Yes the recording could have been better but the ‘feel’ of the music left me captivated.

I found that the placement in Geko’s room of the speakers worked beautifully and the music moved around to the sides and up the ceiling. The room was being filed with music and I was very impressed with the system.

So how does jt it compare with Focal Sopra 2s, sub woofers and a treated room? The presentation is totally different. The DBLs reminded me of my Linn Kelidhs in terms of musical enjoyment on a grander scale and the days when I had Olive amps listening to them. The Sopra’s have more grunt and sweeter highs. They deliver a very modern sound, totally in contrast to the DBLs. Some would say the Sopra 2s are more hifi and more impressive. The DBLs are perhaps a more emotional speaker, bringing you into the music in a more emotional way.

I listen to alot of electronic music and we didn’t really do that with the DBLs. My inclination is that they are more suited to jazz, classical and certain types of rock music.

This is not about one being better than another: it’s a totally different sound from the same basic set up of full 500DR system. This is what I found so fascinating. You are also listening to the room also. My room is smaller and more immediate. Geko’s room is filled with music coming from different parts of the room.

The evening went very quickly and I had to leave due to work commitments today but could have stayed and listened to more very happily.

It was a superb night and we had a good chat about our systems and music!