Of course there is a huge difference between an electronics box where the cost of components may be only a fraction of the total cost, something having to go towards the possibly many 1000s of hours of research and development, plus payment of staff time assembling, which with intricate designs with high precision may be many 10s of hours, and, say, a bog-standard fuse that someone has decorated with fairy dust and markets with a lot of pseudo-science, the only other payment they may have made having been to fake a few glowing reviews (no accusations here, but I think can easily be done, and may be done).
I recently bought a new turntable and new speakers. The dealer came out and installed them. I could have quibbled but living in a remote rural area I was happy to pay full price for a good service
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In the case of manufacturing costs, consider this; Many of the electronic components that Naim buy in are in themselves inexpensive. Take, for example, resistors; Naim will buy many thousands of these at (I would guess) a cost of mere pennies each. However, they will then go through a process of measurement and selection within the factory. This is a time consuming task with only a certain percentage yield. So, tell me how much those resistors cost now?
Just one example of many. When considering the cost of the inputs to any piece of Naim kit, the basic parts cost is fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things. For one thing it totally ignores the most important input of all - the highly skilled people who work at Naim, who design it, build it, bring it to market, and then support it. For anybody who wants to know what really goes inside the box, I highly recommend a visit and tour of the factory.
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No none takes anybody âto the cleanersâ. We are all adults here. If anyone elects to spend a given amount on a product that is a choice they make freely. If they make an unwise purchasing decision then more fool themâŚ
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Difficult this one as there is cost and value,one is tangible one is perceived. eg Hicap cost 1419 retail, minus 20% chancellors Vodka And Tonic = 1182. Parts cost probably 100 max. However,people and time are the biggest extra factor here.
Martin the basic parts cost of a Hicap was a fair bit more than that even when I was working at the factory a decade ago, so Iâd imagine it was even more now. I think if you could supply the basic parts for a Hicap to Naim for a hundred quid theyâd bite your hand off!
However, as I say above, it tells you very little about the actual overall value of the item.
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Wiser men have chewed on this gristle - to little avail.
https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic.php?oid=1566878606103059&coid=159503632588890
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Out of interest I looked at the Naim public accounts a while ago and thought the net profit was comparatively low for the turnover. Just another way of looking at it.
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So, none the wiser thenâŚ
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This was my meaning, theres cost and the value provided, different things. What are the parts in a Rolex? 300 quid? I dont know but the perceived value is 20 times that. The same with audio. Thanks for the reply.
Unlikely I would think being that all Rolex use 18k gold numbers and evan in steel watches the fluted bezel is 18k gold also but again depends on the model.
It reminds me of something along the lines that a worker can never buy what they produce because of mark ups and profit.
I donât know any other field where so many adults (kids donât have enough money for that) are taken to the cleaner, spending little fortunes for minimal increments of sound improvements. Do you?
You and I can buy the same IC for $10K and then someone comes and shows us that the total cost of manufacturing of this silly wire was well under $500. To you it might make no difference since you are mostly concerned with the sound. For me it would completely spoil my pleasure knowing that I overpaid by such a huge margin and it will cause me to get rid of it the first chance I get. I just wouldnât want to own such a thing. Perhaps it does not make a lot of sense but thatâs me and thatâs why I used the term âpersonallyâ. Have a good day.
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That makes absolutely no sense to me personally. Value is a personal measure, but is based on a cost performance basis, not related to how much a manufacturer profits on parts. As has been said, and quite obviously, component cost is a very small part of the equation in relation to overall manufacturing costs anyway.
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The cost of manufacturing is often the least expensive aspect. My old employer (many years ago) used to make Spitfires for Airfix. We sold them for an absolute cost of less than a penny each , price to consumer 2 shillings six pence.
It is also about the development costs and making the moulds , and costs like doing the research, was were the costs lay .
Iâm a big âvalueâ guy, I look for good value. The cost of the bits inside relates to neither the âvalueâ nor the âmoney.â
The value is to YOU, as a potential purchaser/purchaser/owner/user. The money is what you pay for it.
I drove a Honda Civic for 8 years, it was fine transport. I bought my first BMW after that, a lovely Boston Green 325is E36. I drove that car every day for another 8 years, and every day I drove it I loved it. THAT was good value; to get 8 x 365 days of enjoyment from something. It was a lot more than a Honda, but great value for the money. The cost of the bits was irrelevant; I would not have enjoyed it more, or less, if the margin had been lower or higher as it would have still cost the same to acquire.
Adams post has raised an interesting issue of âFound Artâ.
When an artist uses a found object and repurposes it within a different aesthetic - perhaps giving it a value other than what it is or originally worth. From the conceptual value, as such.
This could be interpreted many ways.
A cable brand buying in a cheap off the reel cable and putting fancy plugs on each end.
A speaker brand buying in off the shelf cheap speaker drivers and crossover parts and putting them in a simple box. Charging extortionate amounts because they think it outperforms those that are already over priced.
I could go on, but I think the average savvy buyer can see this. With much unfortunately lost respect for those Artists out there that genuinely deserve it.
The cost to build anything (to me) is of no interest. If I pay 5k for a black box, keep it for 5 years and sell it for 3k, to me that 2k cost is worthwhile with the enjoyment I get out of it over those 5 years.
It makes no oddâs to me if the cost of producing that black box is 4,999 or 1 in the first place as I have no control over that but I can take a view on the resale value of that product.
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Even better if you keep it for 20, 30 or 40 years (or more), which shoukd be the life of decent electronic kit otger than mechanical things like CDPs.
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Naim resale value is an interesting subject.
Why when other brands that have similar longevity and support, they then canât match those prices offered ?