Have you looked at Bryston amp prices secondhand?
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If you think a Naim amp is bad just look at the materials cost of a record, or even worse a download. Does Naimās artistry count for nothing?
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None of us can control the costs of the things we need or want. My work cameras cost a fortune but I couldnāt earn a wage without them. Iāve spent a fair bit this year on the system. Iāve never regretted a penny Iāve spent on Hifi as itās something Iāve had a interest in for a long time.
Speaking of time, Iām at the age where Iāve got more years behind me than I have in front (big thanks tons mate for pointing that one out!) but it made me realise one thing - we arenāt taking any of it with us so after years of being prudent I decided this year to cut loose a bit.
Iām lucky in that I really enjoy my job and sometimes pinch myself that clients pay me to do what I do.
Whatever it costs Naim, BMW, Rolex, Apple and whoever else, to knock out their goods is their business and itās up to you to decide if they represent good value or not.
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Surely you jest. What about switches? Even lights can have switches?
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What kind of photography do yo do?
A bit of mix these days. I started out doing mostly sport but now itās a mix of PR, commercial , portraits, bits of product etc. Most of my work is still sport related though.
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consider this: if a michelangeloās david was for sale for a thousand dollars, would you stamp your feet claiming thatās too much for a piece of rock, which is free? Would you feel taken?
go back a few steps, and the cost of materials for a Naim is nothing - just each of the materials was improved upon through knowledge and effort, and then was assembled in a certain order after a lot of work.
start mining raw materials, processing them, developing into usable product, assemble all those products and give it a listen. Comparatively, any Naim product would be an utter bargain.
Iām not trying to be cheeky here - but this is what any high quality product does - it takes knowledge and skill and turns lower cost materials into something special. & kudos to the hobbyists who figure out a better cheaper way - this keeps the marketplace honest, and in some cases, improves the available market itself.
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You are definitely being cheeky, bringing up Michelangelo and Hi Fi products in the same breath, and I am not sure if it is that you think so little of him or so much of your silly black boxes. I must feel extremely lucky that you did not involve religion in that holly matter of audiophilia.
I listen to reproduced music at home, not to voices from Mars, and for that matter a humble music system suffices. I find it quite humorous that the more people spend on their gear the longer is their list of the superlative virtues, knowledge, experience and wisdom that go into these boxes, I guess because parts are so cheapā¦ Enjoy your system without any guilt. Good night.
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I thought @marketshify point was well made. I was not aware the Michelangelo (or in fact anything) was a sacred topic not to be touched.
Craftsmanship is craftmanship. And as an engineer I see art, in its truest form, in so many things. I sat between the art and technical worlds for years with a career as a graphic designer and although that is not my profession anymore, I have come to appreciate that there is absolutely nothing less artistic about something like a block of source code versus one of Balzacās finest. The artistry inherent in anything of value comes from:
Does the creator view their craft as art or purely a technical function?
Does the receiver view the object as having been created with artistic creativity?
If the answer to either of those is āyesā then it is art and inherently has some value greater than the sum of its material parts. The dispute of art and itās value is the only question remaining.
Personally, I place huge value on the Coca-Cola logo. As a work of art, I put this far higher than Michelangeloās David and it is my perfect right to do so.
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I didnāt realise this topic was going to cause so much conflict! 
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Hi @popeye when I bought my 500 I was told that the heat sink thing at the back is cast and 1 out of 3 were rejected. The company that makes them charges Naim a small fortune (c1k I think) as the process is so time consuming and incredibly hard to make them to Naims specification.
I work in the sports industry (specifically cycling) and have watched over the last 20 years as prices have been squeezed to the point where brands have moved from Far East manufature (margin dependant on currency fluctuation, component availability and shipping cost > UK Distrobution (10% ish margin) > Retailer (35% ish margin). First we saw the distributor being dropped and now we are at a point where quite a few brands just sell direct to customer. I wonder if those brands will have the longevity of Naim who have created a stable platform over the years where dealer service is paramount in the process of buying their productā¦
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Eye of the beholder and all thatā¦
Donāt forget the original Coca-Cola bottle too.
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Consumer direct is an interesting model to cut the consumer price and increase margins if you can pull it off
A few weeks ago the dryer function in our Miele washer dryer stopped working. The machine, which wasnāt cheap, is three years old. I rung Miele and discovered that a one hour engineer visit would cost Ā£125 plus parts. It turned out that some sensor thing had conked out and the total bill was Ā£175. That seemed like being fleeced - it was something that needed to be done but the price seemed very high for what was done, and crucially it was a cost Iād really rather not pay. Then letās compare that to a pair of SuperLumina din to XLR wires, for Ā£3,200. It was a choice I made willingly and like the improvement they bring to my music. They are beautifully made, have lovely articulated plugs and come in a nice box. A classic luxury purchase. Entirely my choice and even if they cost Ā£3 I wouldnāt feel bad because they cost what they cost.
The David example is interesting. I donāt think they are comparable because it is a one off work of art, like a Rodin, Picasso Banks of whatever. A Naim box is a manufactured good, as is a Coke bottle. Great pieces of industrial design but not irreplaceable art.
I sometimes mull on the cost of things and do little comparisons. If you go to Lidl you can sometimes pick up a microwave for Ā£50. How can it be so cheap? VAT, profit, shipping from China, labour. So whatās left for the parts? Ā£5? How can you get the glass turntable alone for that, let alone to metal case, motor, light, cable, microwave-making thingy? Itās beyond me. You can pay Ā£50 for a single Riedel hand blown wine glass. I guess the difference is that the microwave is a piece of cheap crap that will be scrapped in two years whereas the wine glass is hand made in small quantities, and sold for a lot because people will shell out for it.
It always brings to mind Oscar Wildeās description of a cynic in Lady Windermereās Fan - someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
The glass is thing of beauty and lovely, and that makes it worth the price, just like a Naim amplifier.
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Iām surprised at your Miele developing a fault so early in itās lifetime but then I read somewhere else that even theyāve cut back on quality compared to what they used to be like. My folks still have their Miele washing machine thatās only needed the rubber door seal replacing in the 20 years theyāve had it.
Cutting back on quality is something the likes of Naim absolutely canāt afford to do. The minute they do or cut back on customer service, then itās game over. They high prices can only be maintained if the customer knows that thereās no short changing going on and any problems that do come up (and they can/do) are sorted without any fuss.
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When our Siemens washing machine packed up i intended to buy a Miele for the 10 year guaranteeā¦apparently very rarely offered these days. Bought an LG with 10 year guarantee on the direct drive/inverter instead.
As for Naim, no its not cheap, sounds great, and the service i have received over the years has been exemplary. Its all part of the cost along with parts, research and manufacturing.
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Itās kind of going off thread but when we bought our Miele washing machine 8 years ago, there was a promotion of a 10 year warranty. A couple of months ago it started to misbehave and not really expecting anything much by way of help, I rang Miele. They quickly found my warranty on their computer system, confirmed its validity and booked me an engineer. The first available appointment was nearly a week away but they said they would phone if they had a cancellation. They rang me two days later to say that they did have a cancellation on the following day.
The guy arrived on time and started working on the washer. I made him a cup of coffee and got chatting and once he discovered I was interested, he got a torch and āgave me a tourā of the innards. I was fascinated that he was able to take off the front complete with door so as to expose everything inside and then he hooked up his PC via a small optical connector on the control panel. He was able to control all of the different parts via the optical feed. It turned out it was the main control PC that had failed. He checked on his PC and said he had one in his van! He fitted it, programmed it via the optical feed and that was it. He told me the part would have been Ā£450 plus a call out fee, so Ā£550 if not under warranty, but free to me with my 10 year warranty.
He told me the oldest Miele machine he had mended recently was 35 years old and they still had the parts in stock (but not in his van!).
This machine was very expensive 8 years ago, but especially with the free warranty it turned out to be a bargain. So the moral of the story is you are paying not just for parts but knowledge, design, technology and service. Just like with Naim.
Best
David
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Unfortunately we only got a 12 month warranty, and these things happen. Now itās working again and the cost is forgotten. Itās the fact that we couldnāt afford to eat for a fortnight that lingers in the memory.
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Yesā¦ starting to go very off thread but my story is kind-of relevant. We recently replaced our perfectly functional Miele washing machine and the reason was down to an out-dated feature set! The washer was 13 years old and NEVER gone wrong. In fact it still looked like new and thatās despite seeming to be on every single day of the week! 
There are several reasons it was replaced but, for example, limited drum size (and the Miele had a drum size that was considered quite good over a decade ago), spin speed (again the Miele was top of the range for this 13 years ago), water usage, etcā¦ So itās been replaced with a different brand which Iām sure wonāt last 13 years BUT itās still a āqualityā brand and itās cheaper than the modern Miele equivalent and, although it might only last 6 years instead of 13, thatās long enough in this world of ever changing technology.
Anyway, what Iām saying is the world of HiFi equipment is, to some extent, the same as any other technology sector and blighted with the issues of out-dated and redundancy. This is obvious to see with cutting edge products like streamers but is also relevant to other products like DACs, speakers, and even, possibly, amps. Unfortunately technology moves on and the need to change a perfectly working 5 year old DAC might have nothing to do with it going faulty but more to do with not being able to support a new digital protocol. So, with reference to this being a HiFi forum, you start to wonder should I spend extra on a HiFi product which will still be working 10 years or more from now but will be out of date in half that time?
My self I try to steer an in-between path and juggle between quality, longevity and price.
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I get your take on the āover the topā comments and obsessions
But I donāt think Naim is more amazing than other high end audio - but it is amazing how well music is reproduced in any good system. I feel the same way about clothes, tools, and cars etc. Itās amazing what a well assembled & engineered item can bring vs. a hastily designed and built POS, even though the materials can be almost identical - I think this exactly is why design is so important. I just think you should consider the entire chain of knowledge and effort, rather than focus in on cost of materials, just like you were looking at a statue, or piece of art.
i.e. bought an oil painting this year for about $2500. I donāt feel bad since the cost of materials were likely under $50. I just enjoy the painting, and prefer it over a $25 poster.