Thanks for the response. May I ask if you listen to piano? If yes, do you find any glare with piano on certain recording?
I’m trying to ascertain if the NAC 282 is imparting some of the glare to piano which is easily picked up by the Marten Duke 2. This glare or “glassy” sound with piano is not revealed by the Harbeth SHL5+. The highly revealing Marten may have revealed any shortcomings or fault within the chain.
The TT2 looks interesting. Let me investigate this TT2 but I’ve run out of money for new toys, especially after getting the Marten. I’ll surely keep the TT2 in mind but I’ll first need to get the Sonneteer amp back into the system ASAP.
Apart from the glare with piano, I have a feeling that the clarity and detail on the Marten can still be improved. I suspect the NAC 282 is limiting the full potential of the speakers.
I don’t specifically listen to piano, but, as one might expect, the TT2 sounds more realistic than the Nova and piano is one area that stands out. As I’m adjusting to the step change, I can’t really say if there is glare as I’m just enjoying the new sound (even without a power amp).
I’d be happy to try a few tracks if you have any examples?
It’s not with all piano recordings. Few tracks with perceived glare or unnatural tone of the piano, FLAC files. I suspect the TT2 is more transparent hence it sounds more realistic than the Nova. It’s interesting that the TT2 is used to drive the Duke 2 without any power amp on board. It’s impressive that such as small thing can be so capable.
I’m using a Chord QBD76 DAC going into the NAC 282 and NAP 250DR (+Hicap DR).
I was able to find the Yiruma track on Qobuz, it was a hi-res version. My impression is a little skewed by the direct mode, but at ‘normal’ levels (whatever that is) it sounded very natural without any ‘glare’. However, once I raised the level somewhat it did begin to sound a bit rough, but that applies to everything as the 18w quickly run out of puff. I also listened via headphones and that route was absolutely sublime with no hint of glare. I need to accelerate getting that amp…
Or could it be that the Duke 2 has a slight bump of energy in the upper medium? That’s the case of several speakers these days, but not Harbeths. I haven’t heard the Duke 2s, I’m just curious.
Quite amazing isn’t it, how the TT2 can drive speakers directly? I have been running my TT2 this way since I got it last September, speakers are Dynaudio excite 12’s. I have added an Mscaler about a month ago, which sounds better yet, but I still plan on adding a Belles amp. The reason I want to add the amp to the TT2 is my long term plan to buy a pair of Harbeth 30.2 XD’s, which will require more power. Another option I have been thinking about is just getting a more efficient speaker, so I can keep driving direct off the TT2. The Klipsch Heresy 1V are the speakers I want to investigate for this. There is a dealer that carries these about 3 hours drive from my home. They are getting rave reviews, nothing like Klipsch speakers from the past. A guy who’s opinion I respect on another forum Suggested them.He has owned many speakers in the past, for example Dynaudio C1’s, the new Confidence 20’s, PMC fact 8 and 12’s… so knows his speakers. The Heresey’s are 99 DB’s and 8 ohm, so should be a breeze for the TT2, but they are large speakers. I also tried adding a JL Audio D110 sub to the TT2’s RCA outputs, while using the XLR’s to drive my Dyn’s. This worked really well too, which you could look at to add some bass to your Marten’s, so you do not need to turn it up as loud to get a fuller sound.
Yes, same experience. At low and below moderate volume levels, less issue with glare or unnatural tone of piano. It’s only at above average and higher volume the glare or glassiness becomes apparent. The undesirable trait may not be completely eliminated as it may be caused by the recording, amplifier, room or speakers, or a combination of any of the above. The only way to avoid this glare is to listen at low volume.
Yes, it could be a possibility. However, a slight reduction in glare and energy in the treble especially with the tone of piano when swapping the 282/250DR to 202/200 had given me some hope.
If the glare with piano on the Duke 2 is further reduced when the speakers are driven by the Sonneteer Orton (which at this point is still with the repairer), this would suggest that the amp is the culprit. Otherwise, I would admit that the increased energy in the treble due to the 2nd order crossover setting, the ceramic Accuton tweeter/driver or whatever it is may have contributed to the “energy”.
Generally, this hasn’t been my experience and in fact one of the reasons in choosing them was they sounded less forward than speakers I was comparing with at the time, notably B&W.
I found an interesting quote from a Stereonet review which may support this view:
“Treble and upper midband proved surprisingly smooth, when it could so easily have been voiced forward – or clinically – in the hunt for definition and clarity. However, Marten has the upper-end tuned with the tweeter a little backed off. This makes the Duke 2 great for extended listening sessions with violins, for instance, and will tame those amplifiers with a bit of a bitey treble, such as the Musical Fidelity M6si”.
What I have noticed on my journey (to the surprise of no one) is that small tweaks have a much more noticeable effect on such revealing speakers, so finding the elusive synergistic heaven is more challenging.
I too find the Duke 2 to be less forward than my Harbeth SHL5+. It’s something that can be unexpected as Harbeth is considered to be a smooth and laidback speaker by many. Currently I find the Marten to be even smoother sounding / less forward than the Harbeth. It’s a refined and delicate presentation rather than forward bursting dynamics with Marten which is nice. One example is percussion sounds slightly recessed and rounded with the Marten whereas other loudspeakers reproduce it with more impact, bite or presence resulting in a more forward sound.
I have posted my impressions on the comparison between the Harbeth SHL5+ and Marten Duke 2 on another forum earlier. Similarly I find the Duke 2 to be highly sensitive to partnering equipment when compared to the Harbeth. Although both speakers are capable of revealing differences in amplifiers, the Duke 2 reveals a lot more.
To avoid being long-winded,
With Harbeth SHL5+ : 202/200 sounds good, 282/250DR sounds great
With Marten Duke 2 : 202/200 sounds poor(almost like radio quality), 282/250DR sounds good (not great)
Marten recommended filling the stands with sand used for sandblasting. I presume aluminium oxide sand. Perhaps filling the stands will bring appreciable if not significant gains. They still have not replied on how much to fill.
Yes, 2/3 is the usual recommendation for filling of speaker stands. I just got a response from Marten. The chief designer said it’s best to fill the stands to “as full as possible”. Guess I need to fill the stands up to 2/3 at the very least, or filled to the brim as suggested by the chief designer…
Looking forward to a positive (and dramatic) improvement with the Duke 2 after I get this sorted out. Can’t do anything now during this lockdown period.
An update. The Sonneteer Orton is back to the system 3 days ago and placement of speakers had been adjusted several times. Long story short, the Sonneteer had proven to be a better match to the Marten than Naim. The treble is less exaggerated and slight glare and harshness are now gone. The tone of the Sonneteer is more pure and neutral. I’m now getting a glimpse of brilliance from the speakers.
I can’t wait to get the stands filled. Hopefully another round of improvement. A little bit more weight to the lower registers would be nice.
That’s interesting, making me wonder now whether adding Naim amplification will be the best route for me. Might need to take some more time and look at some different options.
Yes, I felt the same way too after reading a lot on the 282 vs 252 but I’ve made my stand to stop at the 282’s level. Most importantly the Harbeth still sounds great with the Naim, less stellar with the Sonneteer. Results are switched when speakers are switched. The Harbeth is more forgiving, Marten less forgiving.
