Indeed and room reflection management and/or ensuring reflections are diffused (random) are key here… as well as I believe a critically under damped mid and treble driver enclosure to reduce smearing.
In my experience success here improves the intelligibility of heavily compressed and processed vocals (think Thom Yorke) as well as choral music without highlighting … in addition sibilance in choral music tends to sound natural and mixes into the natural reverb rather than off puttingly exaggerated and or sharp. So net effect more rewarding insightful replay… well it works for me…
1 Like
Unless you get to compare them side by side and pick the one that best suits you, of course.
Same here, hence the above demo to get from feeling to knowing, and extend demo to home also.
1 Like
I used to have a Sugden A21 (mid-90’s version). I believe you can still enjoy the qualities of the sugden with a more affordable speaker. The older Q acoustics 3050i maybe a viable option and a low cost second-hand alternative.
1 Like
Wow! thanks everyone for so many great comments and thoughts- keep em coming! This forum is enough reason to want to get into Naim! For now, I’m pretty convinced that I will be getting a black box soon, just not sure if I’ll go XS3 or SN3- partially depending on what I find for sale used. I’ll keep you posted.
I should add that the discussions about the room are definitely accurate. I actually just moved across the country and only really had my system set up for a short amount of time before sending the Sugden in for repair. So I really didn’t start to evaluate how everything would work in my new space. Honestly, I think after the move I’ve just got the bug to try something different.
4 Likes
Having recently auditioned the SN3 against the XS3 with the same ND5 XS2 source feeding both, I can say the SN3 easily out performs the XS3. More grip, more apparent speed, better bass, more space, more detail, more energy, more everything. The SN3 sounds like a significantly more powerful amp.
To my ears, it comes reasonably close to the old olive series sound in terms of energy and intensity, but tempered with a healthy dose of space, nuance, and soundstage depth. By comparison, the XS3 is a slightly smoother, mellower sound that some might prefer.
For my tastes, the SN3 is easily the more involving amp. If the XS3 is row 15 at a live show, the SN3 is row 2.
6 Likes
Good that you did the demo, the only right way to find what works for you!
Agree with that asssement, but it’s also about system matching (within a budget).
I spent the price difference of the amps on upgrading the source. To my ears ND5 XS2 > DC1 > nDAC into the XS3 (total cost around 5700 euro) is a more pleasant combination than the SN3 with a bare ND5 XS2 (cost around 5100 euro) or bare SN3 with bare NDX2 (8000+ euro). People also tend to quickly put a HiCap DR on the SN3 which changes the cost balance even more, and then later a XPS (DR) on the NDX2.
Just to say that sometimes for me there is a “good enough”, and upping the amp would make me want to balance the system again at that higher level, also upgrading speakers, turntable to match etc. Above prices based on the current Dutch ex-dem/used market, it’s very different in the UK.
We all have different ears and philosofies on this of course, and budgets, so just a perspective.
4 Likes
Defo SN3 here last of the Old Classic series and punches well above its weight.
That’s a challenge. 
I love mine and see no need for any bigger or more. 
4 Likes
I once contacted Bob Surgeoner at Neat Acoustics for advice about pairing speakers from his company with Naim. His general advice was Motives with Naim XS or 5 series gear, anything else with Naim Classic gear.
Hope that helps.
Your Suggy is very highly thought of btw. But I think you will find Naims have different strengths, as others have said.
1 Like
If you’re trying to keep the costs down, then I would recommend a pre-owned Supernait 2. It’s being discontinued for a few years now, so it can be had for a song and it’s only a slightly lesser amp than the SN3. There’s no phono stage, but it’ll drive almost any speaker. It’s really one of the best deals available at this point in the entire Naim lineup.
Best of luck with whatever you decide on.
1 Like
Naim XS3 with Neat SX3 here, I wonder if they were named sympathetically 
5 Likes
Reliability is a concern and it does seem like the Sugden will be able to work and be serviced for a long time. Likely it may still be the “newest” model in Sugden’s line up for a while! Saves a bit of not feeling you have the latest and greatest lol. My model had a transformer hum since I bought it that I was told to “keep an eye on”, finally pushed to just have it sent in and they’ve agreed it’s way too loud! Dealer and service are in different cities then me, so really just a problem of not being able to take it to be heard by the dealer, but everyone from dealer through to Sugden have been super helpful and are taking care of the issue properly!
One thing that still draws me to Naim, is people to seem to keep them for a long time, and caps etc. are all readily available. Although, I wonder the cost of replacement out of warranty when a board goes out!
I may shop around for an SN2 too. Since I already have a Phono pre, and run lomc I wouldn’t really need the phono stage anyways.
2 Likes
I very much agree with @david1111 here — the SN2 is a great amp and, in the used market, it presents incredible value for money.
2 Likes
Well, if you decide to go that route, and you can stretch the budget, get the SN3.
If you get the XS3, you’ll always be wondering “What if…”!
1 Like
Unless you really like your Nait XS3, of course Demo before buying also helps greatly.
Surprisingly no mentions yet of NAC202 / NAPSC / NAP200 DR as a Supernait 3 alternative.
1 Like
I think you’d be amazed at how it sounds especially for what they can be had for.
My speakers are 4 ohms, so for me its a 130w amp.
1 Like
I was very close to bidding on an SN3 that just went for a real good price on eBay. Pulled out at the list minute- maybe I’m not ready yet! I’m always a little wary about ebay but this was from Gene Rubin so seemed a good bet. I’m sure whoever picked it up will love it!
1 Like
If I went Supernait 2, would that potentially be pushing me towards needing a service soon? Seems like people around here say these things need servicing every 10 years or so, and a lot of SN2’s could 8 or 9 years old. Or is that something more true to older Naim stuff?
1 Like
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Naim stated that the service interval for recapping the classic range of gear including SN2 is 15 years. The earlier ‘chrome bumper’ and ‘olive’ models had a 10 year interval.
3 Likes
Recommended service intervals are in the very helpful FAQ section
2 Likes