Thanks for the clarifications! What you are reporting is very intriguing and does not speak for the Melco, in my view.
Have you then tried disconnecting the connection between the Melco’s “LAN” link and your switch chain at replay time?
Since the music data flow from the Melco to the ND555 through the “Player” link, replay should not stop until the end of the play queue is reached.
Does truncating the “LAN” have an impact on the sound quality? What if you turn off the last switch upstream the Melco instead of disconnecting the “LAN” link?
I’m not interested in finding ways to use my ND555 that mean I can’t in fact use it in practice, so I’ll keep to what practically works.
My view is that all sources of ‘noise’ or unwanted signal reduction seem to impinge on the end result - and that you hear more of that result as your own system improves.
The bar has been raised a lot higher for stored digital music replay even just in the last two years from what I’ve been hearing - and all of the gains are in replay chain - and almost none in the recording end, which seems overall going the wrong way - worse.
So it is strange that I get best results with material recorded when people cared about Mastering more - because they had to, generally before year 2000 or thereabouts with notable exceptions - into modern optimized HiFi digital replay.
The wired Ethernet - or if you try to side-step that WiFi (worse for me) all constitute a source of clock and digital transition-edge noise which - if you can constrain and lower the noise-bandwidth, you can tailor to work better with your system. This noise interacts with everything in all directions and has a real-time component that seems to interact with the DtoA process transition into the Analogue signal being by transposing itself onto the Analogue output - or more insidiously by getting into the DtoA reconstruction process by adding real-time HF and LF noise; I suspect it is both but the latter is what is more significant.
Means of measurement are limited - I’ve done such measurements and you are limited in real-time by the noise-threshold of the measuring equipment. This was fine for 8 bit digital video I used to design in past, but 16 bit or more audio with multiple in-band harmonic distortion (which you do not get with video) is beyond it.
In-short - hard to measure - measurements are generally always average - show ‘nothing’ but averaged music is also ‘nothing’ so not greatly useful - but the proponents think they have mastered the Universe!
…so we are down to - experiment - select …and later if inclined. learn, understand and make progress.
Darkebear///// I agree with you because I also think so, different people think in different forms…there are those like me who only relate to how everything sounds and there is the other group who are looking for technical logic…which in my opinion is wrong … because you can’t certainly prove their claims … at the same time when you listen It’s a fact.my default how to think was always how it sound first …and never asking myself how can it technical be
quote=“Meni, post:44, topic:7346”]
earring is a fact
[/quote]
Assuming you mean hearing - not necessarily! Your perception at any given time may be a fact to you, but is not absolute. Hearing can be deceived, and what to someone sounds better at one moment they do not necessarily agree sounds better at another point.
Personally I like to understand things, not just accept them. It doesn’t mean I necessarily disbelieve something, but it makes me challenge if it doesn’t fit my present understanding (i.e. first verify facts). And for that in the case of audio I believe in blind testing is a key tool, because ears/brain are not infallible. Everything will have an explanation - though I accept that at any given point in time the explanation for some phenomenon may be unknown. That to me is a cue for observation and experiment, to try to find the explanation - but I accept not everyone is interested, which is perfectly fine (as long as they don’t knock those who are). However, an advantage of knowing the cause of an effect is that ways to improve can then be logically based or developed by those with the expertise, rather than random trial and error, helping overall progress and improvement, which to my mind is a good thing.
Right, so if you make the experiment of disconnecting the “LAN” link of your Melco you might learn something and make further progress: if I understand correctly, this is a connection that you do not need in your system at replay time, do you?
I’m happy for people to believe what suits them.
I’m being constructive in sharing, for those with ears to hear and a mind to consider, what may help them somewhere better.
But you always get the cadre that want to shut-down anything that does not fit with their own preconception of what they feel should be limits on reality - that is also fine - people are sovereign.
As Mr Rooster says - it is pointless as after a track it stops as no control - and the ND555 stops and goes-off hunting for a network…just pointless.
From the brief bit of music I hear when disconnected - it sounds a bit worse - as if the electrical connection is doing something useful - which I suspect it is.
I recall someone saying that they unplugged the ethernet during playback by an ND555 and thought that the ‘background got quieter.’ I’ve actually tried it – and heard no change.
I have just checked it on my RPi + DigiOne Signature combo and you and DB are absolutely right:
With MinimServer + upmpdcli running on the RPi (and a few sample albums stored in the SD card) playback stops shortly after having disconnected from the LAN, about 40 seconds in my case.
Upmpdcli is just an MPD frontend. If I start replay directly from MPD and then disconnect, playback goes on until the end of the album/queue as one would expect!
In this situation the server (and, in my case, also renderer) is physically isolated from the network.
It is a bit sad that MPD works so much better in this respect, and that Melco have not managed to fully isolate the subnetwork from the rest.
But the experiment at least explains why the “LAN” connection (and thus the switches upfront) can have an impact on the sound quality, as reported by DB.
Good to form your own opinions based on experiences - I respect that!
That everyone will get the same opinions on results will vary with system and listener perhaps.
It is not a big deal - just sharing information that may or may not be of use is how I see it.
Music is about feelings only…many faces to describe feelings by different persons, it’s okey… in my opinion those who are checking technique reasons are far away from music … I’m saying that because I met in my life some people thinking they understand technique but on the other hand didn’t really understand in music,in this hobby not everyone is an audiophile … I’m not above, it is only my opinion…guys
Interesting question. And the answer is variable!! Sometimes most definitely yes, especially if there is a large choice - when it can take me ages to decide, or otherwise if absolutely everything sounds fantastic, when I end up picking something different from my wife so we can share - and if as good as expected we’d aim to be back to try other choices. Other times something catches my eye and even though I might read further I go back to that.
I am blessed, or cursed, depending on viewpoint, with an analytical mind. It does mean I sometimes struggle to make my mind up, weighing pros and cons. I also am a believer in the courage of one’s convictions, but also a recognition that I am not infallible. When I make a decision it is the best based on information available to me at the time, and I will go with it wholeheartedly, and never regret. If later information tells me I am wrong, I am not to proud to accept that I was wrong, and then seek the best way from the first decision to whatever then seems better. Fortunately on balance far more decisions prove right than wrong, justifying (to me) the analysis.
What is MPD?
Melco can play direct, with an usb Dac, and no network involved. However some reviews pointed that the sound is better in UPNP mode, with network involved, as far as Melco is concerned.
Streamer/Dac to Melco in Ethernet, better than Melco to the same Dac in usb or spdif.
I read 3 different reviews pointing that. Have not tested, because no spdif cable at home.
I run a business and have to make “important” (please excuse the term, in the current situation it does seem so meaningless) decisions daily, which impact upon the business and ultimately the income/welfare of the people who work with me. I take on board and assess everything I can to help me make those decisions but I don’t have any trouble in making them and sometimes have nothing more to go on than experience. Fortunately, the decisions are mostly “correct” in that they have a positive outcome, or at least they don’t have a negative one. I’ve been doing that for many years so it’s become almost second nature and allows me a degree of confidence (in the early days perhaps arrogance) and perhaps that’s one of the reasons why I chose my hi-fi the way I do.
And my work is heavily involved with making assessments and decisions, and giving advice - all of which have to be right, as wrong is infinitely worse than not doing, and with potential for serious consequences. All based on seeking facts, precision, accuracy (taking into account uncertainty, plus precise use of language (no space for phone-autocorrect!), and recognising and investigating anomalies. Fortunately in practice 95+% of the time thing are simple and routine, just requiring diligence and care.
This of course rubs off on my consideration of hifi gear, and effects. But nothing to do with engagement with and enjoyment of music!
I wonder if it depends on definition of sounding better (bearing in mind people have different preferences for neutrality or colouration, as well as other factors), and how dependent it is on the electrical environment, remainder of network, and specific DAC, as is the case with effect of network switches and cables.
My interest in Melco, or Innuos Zenith, would be as store, and if possible avoiding the vagaries of streaming across a network: I.e. using its internal renderer and feeding direct to a DAC (specifically, to Dave). When originally auditioning Dave I had a chance to compare Melco N1A in that mode with my Mac Mini/Audirvana, and they were indistinguishable, though It was only a short session.
