Meta Data Management

[Walker]

I have completed my ripping of about 500 or so CD’s. Now that they are ripped I find the means to access them via the Core is rather disorganized. The groupings by artist, composer, etc. etc. doesn’t seem to really work all that well. And searching for individual albums using the Search button is slow and, similarly, rather clumsy. So, in short, is there a way to go back in and re-arrange the albums in different ways? Different headings? Etc. I have seen some references to external meta data ‘management’ programs, but I didn’t understand what they are, which are the better ones, and then how to use them. Thank you, as usual. Walker

[Peppo62]

Try this…

automatic music organizer and album cover finder

[ChrisSU]

You cannot use a third party metadata editor to edit CD rips in the Core, which, as you have found out, is somewhat limited in this respect. If you want to make changes you would need to move the contents of the music folder into the Downloads folder, where you can safely make any changes you like.

[davidhendon]

And you would move them by copying them to the downloads folder and then deleting them from the Music/MQ folder using the Naim app.

Best

David

[Bru]

Export the music files to a HDD or NAS and get PerfectTUNES from dbpoweramp. This is the best program to sort the mess created by the Core. Also, that program deals with the images much better as it embeds them into the files + instead of 2-3 Mb they only use about 300 - 400kb in size. I recently spent two months sorting my library of just under 1800 CD’s out. I was shocked how poor the tagging was done by the Core

[ChrisSU]

You can just stick the files in the Downloads folder and edit them there, it’s not necessary to store them on a different device.

[Bru]

Fair point

[anon4489532]

Depending on what you want to do, you may be able to simply leave the files where they are and use the Naim app to edit the metadata. What is not happening that you want to happen?

[davidhendon]

@anon4489532

What is not happening that you want to happen?

You can’t edit the composers or conductors fields, even though you can search on composers for example, so the composer search on the UnitiCore is hopeless as you are completely in the hands of whoever put the metadata into the Rovi database. Often the field is empty, so a search misses the album completely.

I don’t think anyone in the Naim developers team listens to classical music seriously and so this glaring usability fault is continually ignored by them. When I raised it with the head of the software development team during a visit at Naim HQ a few months ago, he asked “is this your opinion or a general opinion?” I didn’t form the view that he at all took on board the problem with it as it is.

Best

David

[Jammin]

It’s a bit of a rubbish solution to a big lack of functionality in expensive kit, but I always make sure with a classical cd to at least edit in the composer’s surname (with ,JS or ,CPE if necessary) followed by a colon. For a cd with multiple composers I do the same for each composer - if nothing else you can at least do a main search on that fairly accurately.

[nbpf]

@Walker

I have completed my ripping of about 500 or so CD’s. Now that they are ripped I find the means to access them via the Core is rather disorganized. The groupings by artist, composer, etc. etc. doesn’t seem to really work all that well. And searching for individual albums using the Search button is slow and, similarly, rather clumsy. So, in short, is there a way to go back in and re-arrange the albums in different ways? Different headings? Etc. I have seen some references to external meta data ‘management’ programs, but I didn’t understand what they are, which are the better ones, and then how to use them. Thank you, as usual. Walker

It looks like if you have made the mistake of ripping 500 CD (instead of, say 20 or 30) without checking the results and before thinking about which tags you want to populate and how you want to browse your music collection. If this is the case, I think that the best that you can do at this point is:

1. Move the Core rips to the Downloads folder and convert them to .flac.

2. Use a good metadata editor (dbPoweramp, Ex Falso, …) to fill in / edit the values of the tags that fit your needs: Composer, Conductor, Artist, Ensemble, Genre, Period … whatever you want to use to organize your music collection.

3. Run MinimServer on a networked Raspberry Pi to serve the files stored in the Core.

This basically means using the Core as a ripping station and as a storage only, but you have meanwhile realized that the Core’s UPnP server is very limited and inconsistent and that the possibilities of editing the metadata of rips made with the Core is a joke.

Thus, it is better to bite the bullet now (and before you start buying new albums and add them to the Core’s rips) and get a clean job done.

Again, you should first do 1)-3) for 20-30 albums, check the results, refine your choice and check again before you process 500 albums!

I apologize for being a bit harsh but consistent metadata and a good UPnP server are really mandatory for enjoying and exploiting a music collection through UPnP renderers.

If you are not prepared to invest (at this point, a significant amount of) time and efforts cleaning up the metadata of the Core’s rips, you should perhaps consider having these files served by Roon or going back to your physical CD collection.

[Walker]

Thanks to all. I definitely learned the hard way and, despite my affection for NAIM, remain surprised why something this simple and obvious would not have been realized and ‘solved’/improved in the first release. Seeing as how this seems to happen to other people as well, could a NAIM ‘update,’ be possible? I’m no expert (which should be obvious by now!), but isn’t this sorting of metadata pretty much basic database 101 twenty years ago only with any obvious differences and requirements for audio files?
Off to explore 3rd party apps now. Thank you very, very much for all helpful responses.

[GavinB]

@Walker

but isn’t this sorting of metadata pretty much basic database 101 twenty years ago only with any obvious differences and requirements for audio files?

You’d have thought so but I think there’s so many options to cater for personal taste in how the data is presented. Take ordering of artists as an example: do you want David Bowie under D or B? It’s B for me, but D for others. Do you group Ryan Adams & The Cardinals albums under their own artist heading, or do you put it with the rest of Ryan Adams’ output? Lots and lots of personalisation options!

[nbpf]

@GavinB

@Walker

but isn’t this sorting of metadata pretty much basic database 101 twenty years ago only with any obvious differences and requirements for audio files?

You’d have thought so but I think there’s so many options to cater for personal taste in how the data is presented. Take ordering of artists as an example: do you want David Bowie under D or B? It’s B for me, but D for others. Do you group Ryan Adams & The Cardinals albums under their own artist heading, or do you put it with the rest of Ryan Adams’ output? Lots and lots of personalisation options!

That’s precisely why MinimServer support user-specific tags, intelligent browsing and different ways of sorting composers and artists: name first, surname first, alphabetically descending, ascending, etc.

One does not need to faff around with settings if one is fine with the defaults and one can fine tune the way a music collection is presented to the control points if one wishes to do so.