Moving Coil v Moving Magnet

The cartridge should not be thought of as the source. In fact, the generator within the cartridge is driven by the TT. the hierarchy within the bearing/motorr/sub (or otherwise) chasis/tonearm seems to be more complex though… being all about getting and protecting (for example, from feedback) the best signal from the generator (which is itself, in this case, also a transducer). All solved by simply using your ears.

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If a SL-1200 G ,I would not go for an expensive MC cart…

I couldn’t answer the second question (What is the best MM cartridge?).

It also works better than amp first or worse speaker first.

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It may, but in depends on the context, without it is just a belief, one with loads of confirmation bias, unfortunately.

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I would say decades of practical experience by thousands of audiophiles many of whom never owned a Linn turntable is a bit more than confirmation bias. I’m not sure what your point is. That there’s a better general philosophy of system design? Then let’s hear what you think is a better one. Or is it simply that there are exceptions to the rule? In that case thank you for the truism.

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Simple, there are no rules, systems need to be analyzed to determine an appropriate upgrade path. Source first started as marketing indoctrination, then it became mantra, maxim. People will always believe whatever they want to believe, so carry on with your belief system and don’t mind me.

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Why?

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@n-lot I would put the money on a better turntable

Godspeed bringing down the source first hegemony.

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I guess that’s a bit subjective as it depends on your definition of “expensive MC cart…” and “better turntable”.

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For an example I would choose an LP12/Ittok/Lingo/Grado Gold over a
Lyra Delos on a 1200 G

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Surely you simply forgot to add the applicable “in my opinion” to this bold and repeated statement :slight_smile:

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As far as I can gather from a quick search online you prefer the 11k combo over the 6k combo. Probably not unreasonable.

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It started as a sales strategy, that is a historical fact, not my opinion, those of us who witnessed it first hand know.

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An LP12/Ittok/Lingo/Grado Gold is about £1500

I will made my statement post: under 1k, MM can be better vs MC, or just preferred.
After, if your tt, arm and phono are up to the task, MC wins.

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FR

that may be true sometimes-but there is a lot of short cuts being employed with the view that higher cost must be better.

which often is nonsense and how brands are starting to sell ever more expensive items. Particularly if they are never version (sometimes just a change of box)

It’s price-quality heuristic

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Fine, but how is that a negative qualifier per se?

The man could have very well been convinced that his sales strategy was grounded in something he knew to be right. With the support of the founder of Naim no less who knew a few things himself.

Let’s not forget either that Ivor then has been vindicated by many still considering source first (and what’s discussed here - deck first) to be a useful guideline. And by his decades long prospering business of course, in a market with plenty of alternatives.

All in all, many angles, as for the whole thread.

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I should add: 90% of time. Because there are bad MC too. Then, for example a pricey Koetsu, which verges towards romantism, a more involving MM can be preferred.
I have never saw a high end turntable, like big SME, Vertere, Avid , …Clearaudio….not mentioning > 150 k ones, using an MM cart. Never.