I suspect there is generally rubbish at low price and exceptional at eye watering price.
then in the middle there is a whole heap of ‘well it depends’
but I was just pointing out the fallacy of high cost = better. Simply untrue, but it’s the way we’ve all been bombarded with marketing-plus there’s an awful lot of judgements made (elsewhere and on this forum) of gear simply because of price tag.
There is no LP12 available for that kind of money where I live. The entry level here is Majik and that doesn’t even come close.
We are talking about a used LP12 over 30 years old
with a new Grado Gold mk III cartridge.
Thus comparing apples with oranges.
It is not just marketing, but it is clear that you jump on it at every opportunity.
Some prefer apples and some oranges,I know what I like.
Don’t dismiss old top of the line turntables,is my advice,an LP12 with Ittok tonearm is capable to be used with very good MC cartridges as Linn Troika for an example.
Over the years, I have progressed from source first to a balanced approach. I have had systems where the sources and amps were far better than my speakers. Conversely, I have had great speakers with less than great sources and less than great amps. This unequal pairing was usually b/c of budget constraints when I was younger I was left with feeling something was lacking. My dealer would not let me move to NC components until I had upgraded my speakers. I now feel my current system is fairly well balanced. Moreover for me, prior unbalanced systems led me to want to continue to upgrade.
I started my vinyl journey with Vertere DG 1 and an Ortofon Black MM and it sounded great. Then I got greedy for more and got a Vertere Mystic MC with a Vertere phonostage and was really underwhelmed. The Vertere DG turntable was just not good enough and produced too much noise with the MC.
Only after upgrading to the new Vertere DG-X does the Mystic MC do its wonders. In my experience the turntable likely to be the decisive factor whether to go for MM or MC. Now that everything is in place to sound is in another league.
But, I do want to try the Vertere Dark Sabre MM. Could potentially work really well
Not sure you say that from experience. I see you have a P6. So putting on it a top MC would be a loss of time.
All you can do is compare an Ania Pro with an Nd7 or 9. And may find the Nd7 better, and cheaper vs the Ania Pro.
Why don’t we see a Klimax Lp12 with an MM cart, among those dozen and dozen owners here. Do you think they are all hypnotised by marketing and buy blindly what is expensive, rather trying a relatively affordable MM ?
I could have a wind up fisher price toy or a techdas air force zero. What model turntable I have is irrelevant. (Although quite often, I’ve seen the presentation of an alternate opinion result in some veiled form of personal attack)
my point again is simply using a price barometer for quality as a factual point is nonsense.
you answer proves my point. Simply I cannot know because my turntable is not expensive enough, and others who have spent the money, most know.
I didn’t say it just marketing, I said it started as marketing. Also, I have consistently argued that its relevance is context-dependent, a point that keeps getting overlooked. Instead of counter arguments I keep getting jabs, like you just did.
This is a good post. I used a Rega P8 with an Ortofon MM Black and it sounded great but moving to the Apheta 3 the result was very detailed but lacked any sort of dynamism. Put the Apheta 3 on my Michel Orb and it immediately sounded atmospheric and detailed too. Both cases I used the Aria 3 phono stage. The turntable is key to the use of an MC cartridge.
Seems to produce quite a lot of swarf though.
Something like that.
I like to believe I engaged in a meaningful discussion, with counter arguments, and smileys…
You did, you are a great contributor here.
It’s not that your turntable is not expensive enough, it’s just that the RB600 arm is not designed to put expensive MC on it. Would you put a Ferrari motor into a Citroen 2CV?
I have a P10. I would not put neither a 10k cart on it.
I love the AT3600. I sorted out a Technics SL-Q33, SU-V3 and B&WDM100s for D’s youngest daughter. I bought a new AT3600 for the Technics and it was perfect - just grooved nicely without drawing too much attention to any limitations.
That’s point drift. What you or I have for turntables here is irrelevant.
you said after 1k (v arbitrary number) that mcs are preferred and below 1k it’s MMs. My point is that the price of a thing does not equal quality. Sometimes it may be true, but that type of thinking (and we are all susceptible to it) results in manufacturers just raising prices. It’s creates a Veblen effect or Argumentum ad crumenam
after all denon 103s are hugely popular Mc and sub 1k
