Points are being repeated over and over. That won’t make it more right or more wrong There is too much hostility and defensiveness and over-justification for my taste.
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Did they even try? I bet not… basically, a MC is better than an MM, they must think! After there are no MM as expensive as MCs, there must be a reason…
In any case, I am very happy with my MM ND7 with my P8… I haven’t tried MC yet.
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See… that’s my point. The suggestion is that they must be better because they are more expensive….
i really don’t want to be a pedant and as I’ve said earlier at a high level of price, sometimes quality shines through.
but more often than not it’s just ‘prestige pricing’ to give the illusion of quality. In this instance it would seem that 1k is the sweet spot of this barometer for cartridges. A belief which is based on price..
Often people then judge others/themselves by ownership and accordingly the validity of their views (weirdly if I owned a 60k turntable my view would likely carry more weight-even if unknown to others I was hard of hearing!)
Anyway I’ll shut up now. Nobody knows which is best MM/MC, streaming/vinyl, active/passive belt/direct drive…
But the debate can be fun all the same
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A very convenient round number. And one that’s also been around for at least a decade, while cartridge prices have gone up by 50-100% in that same time… Does that mean MC’s are only getting better, (or MM worse) as the threshold has effectively gone down?
And of course MI/MP are lumped in with MM for convenience even though they are different. Only because you don’t need a different phono stage I guess? But then why aren’t HOMCs just called MM as well? And where do MI/MP & HOMC sit in the hierarchy? What are the cut-off points for those?
Quite different they are, for example MIs have the lowest moving mass among all cartridge types, MC is actually closer to MM in moving mass than to MI.
Some do, low output MIs need a phono stage with at least 50db gain when set to MM, 55db to produce a decent output level. Not all phono stages can do that, among the brands often mentioned here I think only Vertere is capable of doing so.
MP actually have lower moving mass. Although I guess it’s a variation on MI.
The order as I understand it:
- MP
- MI
- MM (modern, with neodynium)
- MC
- MM (pre-neodynium '70s and '80s)
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I’ve always prioritised record player and phono pre over cartridge. My logic is I can’t bring myself to spend too much money on something that I can easily damage.
I’ve actually found the review that inspired me to focus on the phono pre.
Having said that I’m sure that some people would consider the Vertere Dark Sabre MM to be an expensive cartridge.
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I’m sure you’ve had an experience which has led you to this conclusion but I have to say I strongly disagree. It was only after I upgraded my source components to what I regard to be exceptional that the music began to make complete sense. I’m not knocking amplification or speakers but “source first” is a very sensible way to build a hifi system.
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There are different ways to look at this.
Firstly let me say I’ve had many MM cart in days gone by but did upgrade to MC and it was an upgrade at the time.
As I’m getting on a bit one has to realise that hearing might not be so sharp now to really get subtle differences and also depending on the deck you have that ongoing maintenance with MC can be more costly and inconvenient due to major strip downs for changing out carts etc.
There is also the angle of looking at minimalist pathways are best.
Cartridge straight into amp without going through even more electronics to deal with the lower output signal.
I’ve decided that long term consistency and ease of maintenance is the way forward.
I’ve recently went from Linn Kandid with Urika into my Supernait 3 to now a TrigB, Audio Technica VM760xSL.
It’s all swings and roundabouts.
It’s taken us back to that place we had relaxing pleasure without the long term worry.
The cartridge is no slouch it’s the best magnet that AT make and then the three point mount “ cherry on top “
The MM input on the amp is superb “ quieter that Urika “ and I’m listening at a slightly lower level on vinyl than before.
Cart to amp nothing in between and no sharing compromise in the Radikal it’s doing what it was meant to do on its own.
I don’t want my daughters to inherit a lot of hassle for later. 
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That’s not my conclusion, only an observation. My conclusion, certainly through experience and experimentation, is that “Weakest Link First” will consistently yield the best results when upgrading a system.
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I would argue that this is subjective, which is fine, but also relative, unfortunately.
Some “weak links” were absolutely fine enough after I had upgraded the source again, an experience shared by others here as well.
So while I see where you’re coming from, I cannot fully embrace that viewpoint.
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If that’s the case, the weak link was the source, not the other devices.
Now that is a circular argument and you know it 
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Your argument started the circle.
Well, better to leave that discussion.
I guess that if you had infinite cash, you would at least had a NAIA with Aphellion 2 and Aura, and shared on how big uplift it’s vs a P8/ Nd7.
But it’s always the same in a forum, we are going nowhere. It’s nonsense.
What’s the problem? I think you didn’t understand what I wrote…
I understood that you said MC is better only because they say it and because it’s more expensive.
Not what you said Registle?
Had some hard day work. My aggressiveness is lowering progressively.
Sorry to ask but what is an MP cartridge?
I think @Skeptikal uses a full Klimax spec LP12 with a a TrigB bodied VMN60 xSL cartridge
I use a Rega ND7 on a LP12 Ekos SE keel L 4 and the ND 7 replaced a Hana ML which was such a polite boring sounding cartridge.Just incredibly hi fi sounding but couldn’t do rock music at all.
So your comments
" Why dont we see a Klimax Lp12 with a M.M cartridge, amongst the dozens and dozens of owners here.Do you think think they are hypnotised by marketing and buy blindly what is expensive, rather than trying a relatively affordable M.M "
Well thats 2 of us here who did and like the results and saved loads of money 
As for your comment about the Rega RB 600 not suitable for MC cartridges absolute rubbish .Years ago I used a RB 300 on a Roksan Xerxes with a Lyra Clavis and a Decca Supergold and a Linn karma with great results.
So if the RB 600 is a more refined version of my RB 300 years ago which could handle those .I have direct experience..have you personally tried that arm ?
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I misspoke then… I think it’s normal that people with very expensive turntables buy expensive MC cartridges because there’s no equivalent in MM… but at the same price or even a little more, I’m not sure that MC cartridges are better than high-end MM cartridges…
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