Yeah point taken … you are right I have quite a few hi res DSD rips … and to be honest on the ND555 … I was underwhelmed. I think I read somewhere that the ND555 … reconverts DSD back to PCM…to play…does this make sense… I am not that technical. Perhaps that has an effect on sound quality…
Why does it matter which internet server a downloaded file comes from?
BTW, are you a professional sound engineer?
1 Like
Darko was previously keen on MQA. In his new year’s roundup he asked whether it’s a format that will disappear.
Quite - and these days of cloud technology the old way of using point source isolated servers to remotely provide content has largely been deprecated with virtualised ‘servers’ that are synchronised across many cloud / hosting locations… this holds true for what I would say is the vast majority of resources that are obtainable from the web…
Perhaps some people extrapolate their basic home network setup with how commercial cloud services are provided as used by many if not most web based service and internet based distribution businesses - and other than the most basic concepts are quite different…
Underneath the covers you will find services like Tidal use cloud service providers to provide and stream their media, and i would be surprised if the major audio visual distributors did not use the same methods… albeit for business to business, not consumer
2 Likes
Yes. Since adding the M-Scaler to DAVE, the whole sound has improved, but in particular the gap between 16 and 24 bit recording has shrunk noticeably.
2 Likes
Id be interested where you find the tipping point on decimated content - has the gap to 14 bit reduced as well - does it peak at 12 bit and then fall away…?? Do you notice this with native 24 bit material that has been decimated to 16 bit - or is it as suggested above more likely to occur with DSD when transcoded to PCM,
It does make me wonder what you are picking up on - and what is happening in your chain if it it is genuine 24 bit distribution mastered PCM.
Of course you may be ultimately constrained by the resolution of reconstruction and audio replay - and you raising the bar on 16 bit performance and compressing the gap to 24 bit - certainly possible…
MQA is Bob Stuart’s pension plan, no need to make any hardware or own a manufacturing company of any of the costs that go with that in materials and personnel. Insert yourself in the signal chain and grab a royalty on every playback.
Dolby and DTS make huge profits from a similar approach, but their position is in my view much easier to justify and the benefits of their offerings much clearer.
Jonathan
3 Likes
I thought it was quite clear Simon. I have no 12 or 14 bit recordings, so your rather snide response is off the mark.
On DSD there is nothing wrong with it it sounds good … but not better than the 16 bit version it does however on my sytem sound very smoooth… Full fat 192 is superior…
Oh deary me, that was no snide remark at all, why so touchy? Come come this is the friendly Naim forum. Just curious as to your counter intuitive observation is quite different from mine’s day keen to better understand it, as I guess a few others might be reading this… there is software out there than can make 12 bit and 14 bit media … using the same process as 16 bit media is created from 24 bit masters… if you are interested I can point in the right direction… if not then please disregard…
So are you implying downloading the same master ffiles from different servers is detrimental to SQ of the files?
So it’s counter intuitive because you run an M Scaler too? I didn’t know that. And when was the last time you bought 12 or 14 bit music?
I plainly stated that I don’t notice the difference between 16 and 24 bit music as much as I did before upgrading.
I’m touchy, perhaps, but fed up with people pouring doubt on on others listening experiences without just cause.
I’m not an engineer but I deal with them all of the time in my business and have relationships with several. Logic would tell you it does not matter, data is data. However, in several tests that were conducted by myself and other recording engineers; it clearly showed that the results were conclusive. This test came about when a large hi rez music download company was interested in acquiring another well known music catalog. The owner was concerned about the quality of the output and asked us to participate in a lengthy test. We were asked to sample files from various sources, sample rates, bit rates, frequencies, etc. We found that a good quality CD rip and/or 24 bit native recording that was not broken up by various servers or had any error correction sounded remarkably better than the same album and tracks that were downloaded by various well known hi rez download catalogs via the internet.
1 Like
Interesting and ripping a CD to my Core is still my preferred source.
What is the difference between a 24 bit native recording and same album downloaded from download catalogs? I don’t understand. Where do you find this 24 bit native recording ?
1 Like
Like FR, I don’t get what you’re saying.
By ‘native recording’ do you mean that you had a 24 bit copy of the file that was given to you but not downloaded from the web?
And how on Earth would you know that a file that you downloaded from a web streaming service sounded bad because it was ‘broken up by various servers’.
This theory is I’m afraid not aligned with the how streaming from the cloud works, as SiS explains above.
It’s normal to send files around the world via the internet, and they ca be served from multiple servers. It works because the signals move at close to the speed of light.
And because the data packets are all marked up and ordered to be reconstructed on arrival at the IP address they’re sent to.
Remember that when the data arrives, it doesn’t bring all the EM noise with it from all those cables.
And it’s the EM noise background that degrades SQ.
1 Like
I have a UnitiCore and it’s an excellent piece of gear for ripping CD’s. If you upgrade your power cord and isolate the Core via vibration draining footers it will improve the performance of the Core in both ripping and playback. Using an SSD drive will provide better results than an HDD. HDD drives vibrate like crazy and create more signal noise.
The Core also re-clocks the signal when using the SPDIF output. The unit uses a dedicated SPDIF transformer, which improve the sound quality. This is quite amazing because SPDIF transformers usually add jitter and degrade sound quality. I don’t know how Naim did it but they did a great job.
A Naim digital cable right into your DAC or streamer (NDX, NDS, etc.) from your Core produces excellent results; better than using your network to stream data from Core to Streamer. Do an a/b comparison and I think you will be surprised at the results. Also, the Naim digital cable is really great for the money. My Core is going straight into my ND 555 via Naim digital cable.
For the footers check out the Naim/Focal North America website.
3 Likes
24 bit native means that the live music was recorded as an uncompressed 24 bit file. A analog tape transfer to 24 bit audio is not the same as a native 24 bit recording. Neither is a 16 bit recording that has been up-sampled to 24 bit audio. The only ‘hi res’ music is music that was recorded as a native 24 bit file. Do some research on native hi res recordings and you will find some good stuff. Just ask the company if their music catalog is coming from one server and not multiple servers around the world.
You can also find native DSD recordings as well. Remember that .wav is the best of any digital file, not FLAC. Anyone who tells you otherwise had not done the same amount of extensive research I have on this subject. Almost any experienced recording engineer will tell you the same.
Thanks for that, very insightful. My Core resides next to a Nova in my media room and my main system with the NDX2 is upstairs in the lounge. Both are connected via Ethernet, though I could run a coaxial optical from the Core to the Nova - I should probally try that.
The Core is on a standard Naim power cord, everything else in the system (including the Nova) is on Powerlines. I hadn’t thought a Powerline on the Core would be worthwhile, now I am wondering … but certainly wouldn’t re-rip all of my CDs.
I have some spare powerlines so i put one on my Core…no difference to my cloth ears. I would borrow one to try, before buying.
1 Like