MQA into non-mqa dac

Unfortunately you are mistaken, I refer to a diagram above by Dr J Lesurf from the University of St Andrews who has kindly provided various tutorials on audio formats, and he illustrates and explains in a more accessible format that the patent on how MQA adjusts the data by bit stacking. You can also read about it in the MQA patent and be properly informed… and yes I am an AES member…

The patent is quite technically involved, so Jim Lesurf provides other tutorials on noise shaping of the MQA encodings superimposed on a PCM base encoding.

A cynic might suggest that it’s largely a means of getting hardware manufacturers to stump up cash in order to licence the technology for use in their equipment - leveraging the asset value in the audio content in other words.
In a bandwidth limited distribution model there is a ‘real world’ benefit to the technology but as we move to a 5G enabled world this seems to be a fairly niche benefit with limited lifespan.

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I have the 100 bucks Zorloo Ztelle , had the Node2 , which is referred to be one of the best MQA DACs in terms of musicality , the NAD C658 , a fairly new MQA preamp and had access to SMSL M500 and some more MQA capable DACS. Is that enough to judge how MQA sounds? But if you still don’t trust my judgement ask Bob Katz , author of the reference book “Art of Mastering” or 2L grandmaster of recording Morten Lindberg, whos 36 Grammy nominations should be enough to trust his ears.

I wasn’t doubting HFV, just asking because some use here much more resolving MQA dacs, as Mytek Brooklyn, DCS Rossini, and report that the differences are not huge. Sometimes MQA is better, sometimes not, and sometimes the difference is minimal.
So with a cheap dac as Bluesound, I am surprised you have a strong preference to MQA.

HI frenchrooster,
I am one of those forum members who uses a Mytek Brooklyn+ DAC in one of my systems, and I access MQA source material via Tidal Masters. I only own 4 MQA albums as downloads, having purchased them purely to test the sound quality of MQA when I first purchased my DAC. Not as good a DAC as the DCS Rossini, but a decent one none the less.

Just to clarify your observation, my conclusion is that there is very little to choose between MQA albums and their hi-res equivalents streamed or purchased from the likes of Qobuz. I haven’t found MQA encoded albums to be better than their standard hi-res equivalents, but I do find that some of the best MQA Masters on Tidal sound better than their CD quality equivalents on Tidal where the original masters appear to be the same.

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Hi HMack

When you say ‘some’ Tidal Masters sound better than Tidal 16/44 files - does this mean around half of the files you’ve compared?

Or most?

Or a small minority?

Hi JimDog,

I carried out some quite extensive comparisons when I first purchased my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. Those were enough to convince me that MQA files generally sounded a bit better than their equivalent 16 bit versions located either in my NAS or sourced from Tidal. This was enough to convince me that whenever I add a Tidal album to my Roon music library, I should choose to add a Tidal Master when one is available. The differences are normally relatively (sometimes very) subtle and in the case of my ears and my equipment amount primarily to a softening (without loss of detail) of some of the harsher aspects of some CD quality material rather than an earth shattering extra resolution - which incidentally I don’t find very often with my Hi-res Qobuz downloads either. I should add that I have not tested MQA source material on any system without at least the first Roon unfold being available.

I no longer bother to compare versions. I simply add the Tidal MQA Master version to my Roon Library when one is available, confident that it will sound at least as good as the 16bit version. I cannot recall ever coming across a Tidal 16 bit version that sounded better than its MQA Master version on Tidal where the original mastering appears to be the same. I don’t hear the unwanted digital artefacts of MQA that some claim to hear.

This applies to either of my systems: Sonore microRendu/Brooklyn DAC+ (with the full MQA unfold) or my Linn Klimax DS/1 with the first Roon MQA unfold. If this means anything at all, music generally sounds significantly better through my Linn Klimax DS/1 (and its system) than through the Mytek with it’s full MQA unfold (and its system) as well it should given the price difference.

So in summary, I find MQA to be of some benefit as a Tidal subscriber, although I would be happy enough with the first Roon unfold alone. Of course, my opinion may be very different were I to own a significantly better MQA enabled DAC such as the DCS Bartok, DCS Rossini or Meridian Ultra.

I bought my Mytek DAC because I wanted to evaluate MQA source material. If I were to purchase a replacement for an upgrade, I certainly wouldn’t now specifically include MQA decoding as a must have. I would simply select the best sounding DAC available in my price range. If it happened to support MQA then that would be a bonus.

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Having now reduced my DAC count to pay for new speakers and reduced my amount of zones I was using. I notice how significant a full MQA DAC is to how it sounds. I only have my bedroom station now that has an MQA DAC and on that all things are pretty equal between standard hires and there mqa counterparts. Whether it’s better than the standard cd version really depends on the master. There a hires versions where to me the cd master is far superior it’s been said before but bit depth an sample rate really dont mean anything if its not a good master they are working from. But when I play mqa with first unfold conducted by Roon on my RME or Atom I always prefer the hires master. You really have to have an end to end mqa solution for it to sound it’s best if not it’s really not worth it at all.

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What app do you use to control the Mytek?

He uses Roon.

CrystalGipsy is right.

I have used Roon for quite some time now to control all of my systems with the exception of when I use the Naim app to access Internet Radio, and in particular Radio Paradise on my Muso Qb.

However, when I first got the Mytek (before I subscribed to Roon) I used MConnect. I think that most (if not all) of my initial MQA comparison tests were carried out using MConnect.

Possibly. It’s a shame that Tidal don’t provide lossless hires; it’s either 44.1/16 or MQA, I do wonder if it’s part of the contract arrangement in offering MQA… as it seems bizarre to deny consumer choice otherwise. Interestingly the MQA versions are often on Qobuz as the original unprocessed hires PCM so you can compare if you want …

I only have a lower mid priced DAC (AQ Cobalt) that does full MQA decoding… and on revealing phones I seem to always prefer the PCM over MQA processed… it just seems to often sound more vibrant and natural by comparison.

I would agree with this, even with my Dragonfly Red between an iPhone and Shure SE846, which I find to be surprisingly revealing (in a way that headphones seem to manage more easily that loudspeakers). When I had both Tidal and Qobuz the MQAs seemed to have a slightly artificial glare to them, where the Qobuz 24 bit equivalent was just more natural.
Previously a similar comparison on my NDX2 gave similar results, but that was only comparing the first ‘unfold’ of MQA files against HiRes Qobuz, so I felt it was a slightly unfair comparison at the time.

Hey all, first post on here, so be good to me!:slight_smile: with regards to Tidal,s MQA format, i understand that Naim (i have a muso QB2) do not support playback of this format, i called Naim this morning, and they mentioned its because of 2 reasons mainly…1.Licensing(probably big cost, pass on to customer/product price hike) and 2.No real evidence of it was actually any better( seen some good info on here already- Simon in Suffolk and others)
Naim did say that if there is a real call out of Naim users asking for this they would review it…any thoughts guys ? thanks…

Darko quotes Naim telling him “We’ll be introducing TIDAL Connect support in 2021 via a free firmware upgrade to our latest generation of streaming products (Mu-so and Mu-so Qb 2nd Generation; Uniti Atom, Star and Nova; ND 5 XS2, NDX 2, ND 555).”

Which is not the same as guaranteeing any kind of MQA support, sure. But that would seem attractive to someone like me out in the sticks on 4G. What with Qobuz Hi Res and two teenagers racing to see who can gobble up my 500GB pcm data limit first.

Ha ha ok- well thats looks promising! Thanks milesF, much appreciated

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Also isn’t the MQA format a lossy format whether it is MQA decoded or not?

No interest in MQA at all, quite happy with Hi Res files. Moved from Tidal to Qobuz 7 months ago and enjoy the sound a lot better and the lower price for the monthly subscription.

You may want to try the search function since this subject has been discussed quite a bit in the past. Some folks moved on to other venders that catered to the needs of consumers wanting MQA.

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the higher definition information super imposed on the base encoding is strictly lossy - yes
S

Ok thanks Seakayaker appreciated