Multiple internet points

A little counsel if I may….

My main system is in the dining room on the below plan and conveniently that’s where my Internet point is. However, the room is an acoustic nightmare so I am planning to repurpose the integrated garage.

My current Internet set up is:

  • internet cable into sky router
  • sly router into Cisco 2960
  • Cisco 2960 to Innuos Phoenix net switch into Zenith into NDS

With relocating the system to the garage I would want to have a wired internet connection.

Would I simply use an appropriate cable from the Cisco (would prob be c30m) and move the Phoenix Net with the rest of the system to the garage? If I did this would running the cable outside and back into my house be an issue performance wise?

Also if I run multiple hard wired systems ( I have 3 in total) would running multiple wired connections from the Cisco cause any performance issues?

I’m not very techie so be gentle but any counsel would be appreciated

Thanks

1000BASE-T (normal Gigabit Ethernet ) over Cat 5e (or higher) cables can go 100m, you’re completely OK at 30m with no loss of performance.

Multiple cables from a 2960 are also no problem at all (that’s what they’re designed for!).

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All sounds good, juts go for wired - I honestly can’t believe some pals who say they can’t believe I use ‘old-fashioned’ wired connections when modern wi-fi is ‘so good’ - great if it is but that’s uncommon in a domestic situation.

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On the other hand Naim support are claiming that adding a WiFi access point (a WAP) other than the one in the router (even if there’s still only one WAP in the system as WiFi access from the router is off) is why the Naim app crashes.

@Alley_Cat
Apparently having good WiFi is a BAD idea in Naim’s book!

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Peculiar, that doesn’t sound very graceful.

It isn’t. WiFi isn’t a reliable transport, and that’s well known and a given for RF communication; but when there’s a glitch the Naim app gets stuck on a UI page where it looses all control of the streamer.

It then requires the user to navigate away from that page and press a single button to restore the connection and restore control. Since the user doesn’t have to make ANY decisions or enter ANY information, it’s clear the app could restore control itself, but doesn’t.

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You could buy a 4g or 5g router and SIM card and locate it in the garage. Simpler than running a cable around the house and your hifi would have a dedicated router.

If you do use a cable outside the house, use cable suitable for external use.

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Hmmm… I’ve used a WiFi router and a WAP for 15 years, first with my HDX (connecting to the HDX) and for the last year with my NDX2 (connecting to both the NDX2 and iphone app). Haven’t had a single issue.

Yes, It doesn’t make sense to me either.

Forget WiFi.

Get a good solid Ethernet link between your two locations. You could leave your 2960 in the Dining-Rm with your Modem/Router (which will give you some spare ports for additional Ethernet connections internally) and move the Phoenix Net to the garage along with your system….

Run a Cat6 cable of the required length between ports of the 2960 and Phoenix Net. IF going external (ie exposed) in any way, then ensure you get a good externally rated cable with a LD/PE sheath. Don’t worry about screened (STP/FTP) unless the exposed cable length is considerable and/or up at height….If doable, you could go underground and bury the run, but if so I’d advise a Direct Burial Cat6 that is Gel Filled or use standard Cat6 in a DB conduit……
Personally, I’d run up a wall (either chased if solid or internally if stud) and over the ceiling to the location, but then I’m an Installer and like drilling holes…! :rofl:

No performance issues to be concerned about re the cable run (if done soundly) and your Cisco switch will be fine providing any other feeds required….

Nit picking, I would set the priorities of the switches (inc the router which is effectively your first switch unless it’s bridged) but this won’t be possible on the Phoenix Net or the Sky….Your network isn’t that deep and so isn’t really anything to worry about, like the majority of domestic LANs ….

SC

Nit picking.2 – It’s not really Multiple Internet Points, but rather Network Points or more accurately, LAN Points ….:wink:

SC

A bit rubbish and a bit of a fob off….
(Do you think they have just the single WAP at the factory…!? :roll_eyes:)

You could have 30 odd APs in an infrastructure (as I’ve done in commercial installs) and if properly implemented there would be no issues – in fact the opposite, a much more efficient and responsive network….

The aspect they (Naim support) could be referring to (over simplifying) is regarding roaming performance of client devices on the LAN….for example, Apple devices are fairly renowned for being ‘sticky’ – that is they will hold onto a AP signal, when weak, for a bit longer than they ideally should when roaming between neighbouring APs…this could, in theory, provoke the App to hang I guess…though I would then enquire as to how well the App is written to accommodate some environment variables….

A properly customisable network infrastructure with multiple WAPs will allow scope to adjust the AP radios – a common error with WiFi is having the radios transmitting at the default 100%, full blast….you are much better off turning down the transmit power from 100% and having increased WAP locations i.e smaller APs in each room or physical zone…think Quality of signal, not power. And also that 5G, being the ‘faster’ band, has a lower reach than 2.4Ghz……A lot of people confuse the ‘number of bars’ on their device WiFi icon for signal quality, but it’s actually fairly irrelevant….At the end of the day WiFi is a 2-Way communication – One way to think of it is like 2 people shouting to each other across a field: One (the AP) may have a loud and boomy voice and the other (client device eg iPhone) can hear clearly…but if the other person (client) has a much softer quieter voice (as client device radios typically are) then chances are the other person will only partially hear what is shouted back….and thus an interrupted communication.

On decent systems from the likes of Ubiquiti or say Meraki, you can also adjust the Minimum RSSI – this basically instructs the WAP to only accept a minimum dB receiving signal from client devices, otherwise kicking them off….this helps promote faster roaming between multiple APs….

SC

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Thanks SC, that’s super helpful.

I think I can get a cable from dining room to garage internally with a little effort (I work in insurance so don’t like drilling holes!)

For neatness would I take cable from Cisco and plug it into something like below and then a further cable from the socket to Phoenix Net? I currently use melco cables in current set up. A little unsure if that adds anything performance wise?

Gary

That would be absolutely fine and pretty much would I would do re wall outlets……Some would argue it’s another round of ‘connections’ and advise a single terminated cable from device to device, but well…….there’s practical realities as well.
Besides, you will probably get your biggest uplift from the patch cable connected to the Phoenix Net and it’s inherent virtues (I’m not getting into the debate!), so your expenses are probably best put there……

Re any wall outlet, I personally use modules that use Punch Down terminals, but I appreciate these aren’t ideal for everyone or those without the know how….but you can get Euro Modules or Keystone based modules that are Couplers – so you basically just connect a pre-terminated cable RJ45 jack into the rear of the Coupler….

I guess I can’t post any links, but have a look at somewhere like Cable Monkey / CCS (Connectix) (presuming you are in the UK?), they should provide all that you require….Excel are perhaps a better quality brand, though not as accessible to non trade…. Cable Monkey are good, I’ve used them many times, including pre-term armoured Fibre and their large 42U server racks etc……

SC

BTW, if you did want to use a single pre-terminated cable between the two locations, you could alternatively use a ‘Brush’ gang module on the wall and simply pass the cable through (or even double gang, one of each type, giving you options at the other end)……Not my personal preference, but I have done it when required….

SC

Each terminal costs you a bit of effective “range” on the Ethernet (caused by a slight degradation of the signal), but probably less than 10m each, so a couple of wall plates are effectively irrelevant.
(100m - (2 x 10m) << 30m)

That was my thoughts as well, but I wasn’t going to be that scathing!

I used to work as a computer systems designer for one of the clearing banks - I was the senior techie in charge of the branch system - we had rather more than the 12 or so endpoints on my home LAN … and it had to be reliable!

Having initially followed their advice, then due to the poor WiFi quality from the WAP integrated in the router, the App fell over in times ranging from 15 minutes to five hours. Putting in a mesh with back-haul over wired Ethernet (actually using PoE to energise it as well), it’s now stayed up for over 10 hours. As you say ‘quality’.

I’m going to talk to them about handling comms errors - I hope they listen, I have a significant amount of experience in reliable comms!

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:+1:

Go for it. I hope they do too, there’s certainly scope for improvement….

SC

I’d say certainly a lot less than 10m, unless you really are butchering the connections and/or not maintaining category spec throughout….

I have never had a run including punch down terminations (sometimes multiple, though I usually avoid) fail a Fluke test, even when right up at the 90m+ limit (though Cat 5e/6 is often quoted as 100m, real world is more like 90m)….TBH, I’ve even exceeded it…it’s interesting how far you can push sometimes. 10G is often quoted as 55m re Cat6, but you can push it in decent conditions…even 5e, you can exceed 40m, all being well……Not that these would be my preference or practice mind you…

SC

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The 100m max is probably irrelevant in this situation, streamers usually work at low speed (100megabits/sec).

Orange flashing light at the streamer port will indicate it’s working at a low speed.

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