Definitely the right approach as something’s not right here. I use Utopia 2022’s with the Atom HE and they sounded great out of the box and have only improved since, always using the balanced XLR cable as supplied with the Utopia’s.
Initially had the HE with Sennheiser 800S, which I upgraded to the Focals and, aside from the eye watering cost, have never regretted it.
ATB and Good Luck getting a resolution,
J
@Osiris The sound is definitely getting better. We rejected adding an Atom HE because my streamer (NDX2+XPSDr) is better than the streamer in the Atom. The quality of the headphone amp in the SN3 may have something to do with it.
There are a lot of factors.
This is the first time I am using the headphone amp in the SN3
The Cardas cable is much longer than the Utopia default.
The Cardas cable has a 1/4 inch termination. It is not XLR.
The Cardas cable is new.
The NDX2 and XPSDr are also new.
This makes it difficult to directly compare. If the sound continues to improve then I will be happy.
That may be so, but it does not necessarily mean they will suit your ears. As indicated previously, headphones, like speakers, can be as different as chalk and cheese, one person loving one with another hating, and vice versa. I was amazed The first time I discovered that with speakers: I auditioned 13 speakers, all in the same moderately high price bracket (likely would cost of the order of £5k or more today), most the top of their manufacturer’s range, all having received high praise from reviewers, yet 10 to me were so awful I rejected within a couple of minutes or less. The 11th was better but distinctly inferior to the other two. The point here is that some people, including reviewers, and no doubt dealers too, evidently felt that the ones I thought were awful sounded good to them – good enough to spend a fairly significant chunk of money. Exactly the same is likely true of headphones.
That is aside from the possibility that yours might be faulty, or that the Cardas cable is causing them to sound bad to you. But I note you have now contacted the dealer, which is a start. I still think it is also worth trying the headphones with the stock cable (plus adapter)
As I’ve said previously and you are discovering, the Focal need some time to be at their best.
Trial/loan a better headphone amp. You’re completely out of whack with such a high end headphone it’s a little ridiculous.
a Grace m903 didn’t do them justice, but a Burson Conductor V2 did.
I used a Sony PHA3 (and the balanced output via Sonys MDRZ7 cable) and that was a noticeable improvement over an iFi Diablo.
The Burson was happiest driving them at 44 (44/100) volume, and some tracks could go as loud as 56.
I mostly used the Grace feeding INTO the Burson for ‘break in’ to “Mono” the sound so tuat the drivers vroke in equally.
symphonic pink floyd, enigma 1990, dire straits live, and some Holosync meditation tracks (& Sussan Deyahim and others) was my playlist mostly …
and every time I walked past the headfi rig I would alter the volume pot a little… (mostly low volume but some at levels approaching quieter listening - not much Full Volume during this time…
interestingly the clipping point changed over time.
Billy Eilish helped track that!!
after 800hours the amount of variation between listens (generally once a day I might listen to thirty seconds to ‘a track or three’) had eased off to a place I cpuld plot a trajectory of remaining spund variation - and realised the Focals I had bought were never going to ‘tighten up’ to Ultrasone Edition 5 quality, and I LOVE my Ed5 Ultrasones’, so a decision was made to move them along (like the HD800s before them)…
Whilst I have only driven some Sony MDRZ7 (and some AKG k612pro) from the Nait integrated, what I noticed when engaging the headamp circuitry of the XS3, IT HADN’T FULLY BROKEN IN…
and that was way beyond 400hours of ‘amp burn in’.
when I first used the headamp in the XS3 (after 400 hours of amp ‘on/in use’, it was grainy and restricted and that was mostly gone within three days of useage (and showed me it needed some baking)…
Metal driver headphones have a LONG BREAK IN is my experience.
My three longest to break in headphones, from tonnes, have been the Edition 5 (1200hours) and some AK Zero1 in ear monitors (that use a planar high frequency driver that doesnt see a lot of use and takes awhile to find its’ stride), and they were a solid 800hours.
Id believe the Utopias, based on my Clears’ being ‘mostly done’ (at 800hour mark), are in the give em a thousand hours mark.
Cardas cable are amazing and Im not sure if given the cryogenic process (cables seem to settle once only, and dont need electron flow monthly to maintain performance (around two weeks if Electrical Engineer types are to be believed), but otherwise, ‘yes’ cable break in too… (the electrons find a path of ‘least resistance’ down the wire, like a river cutting through a mountain…
time is the best medicine here…
@jay and @whitedragem. Thanks to both of you. I may consider an external headphone amp in the future. I would be looking for just a headphone amp. It doesn’t need to function as a preamp or streamer and I probably don’t need a Dac either. What would be great with the Utopia? It would need to accept a 1/4 inch connector as I already have the Cardas cable.
I don’t know sorry as I use a Mojo2 with my Eligia.
A good start might be to watch Currawong on YouTube. He seems quite a balanced (no pun intended) chap. Could do worse that develop a short list from there.
All the best with the journey! It’s really quite interesting how different a headphone experience can be.
J
may consider an external headphone amp in the future
-I use my Nait (not the ‘Super’ variant, with upgraded componentry in the Preamp circuitry and much better power…), and I drive large 70mm Driver over ear cans from the Naim integrated, even though my AudioGd R28 DAC has an excellent class A power headamp inside…
The Naim headamps are ‘good’.
true-the internet will tell you in 1000 places plus that the Utopias, as a grade/tier of equipment probably deserve ‘the best’.
if so, ‘down the track’, as you suggest, you may consider an appropriate valve or solid state circuit that complements your preferred music genre for yhat ‘last little bit’ of the puzzle.
the Naim class A circuit, with the real benefit of being in a PRAT optimised design is perfectly capable.
most reasons for people to buy an amp, sound quality being ‘equal’ (ie by pricepoint etc), is for ‘more control’.
a bit like when you turn your hifi up from minimum volume; that point where the speakers move (but sound is anemic) is like an underpowered amp driving a set of headphones: most any headamp circuit can drive a headphone to make audible sound… eg many say their Mavbooks drive yheir ‘hard to drive’ headphones perfectly… (if they heard them on a ‘better amp’ they might not stick to that belief).
the driver control given from the Naim certainly gets you well into nice Headfi waters…
I’d say-learn your present setups’ sound and maybe revisit amps down the track…
the Naim certainly work as a good pairing with the Focal, and that is not a given with many other headphone amps, given yhe Focals notoriety with pairing (they like ‘nice’ kit).
Supernait to breakin and learn sound if only because if you do decide to go a different headphone direction, they might want a different headamp for their best…
I will run my Clears via the Naim over the next few days and chime back in with what to expect if you respent Utopia money on a headamp ‘upgrade’ (and more budget amp options, like the Sony PHA3 etc…) (edit:I know PHA3 isnt an option cause of no 6.3mm jack, but many many second hand amp bargains cause every man and their dog has gone balanced amps and cabling or bluetooth; great single ended amps, AKA traditional/‘yesterdays design’ will generqlly give phenomenal bang to buck and may prove hard to better for reasonable coin on ‘new’ kit)
@whitedragem thanks for your great response. I contacted my dealer who advised patience. He said the streamer and its power supply are new. The Utopias are new, the headphone cable is new and the headphone amp in my SN3 had never been used before the Focal headphones. I would be very interested to hear feedback about how your Focal Headphones get on with your Nait.
I think it is stretching things a bit for your dealer to say that the rest of your system is still ‘new’.
How often do you use it, and is it always switched on?
Even the most committed believers in burn-in will surely consider 4-5 months sufficient?
Bruce
@BruceW the Utopia headphones are new. The NDX2 is new. The XPSDr is new. The headphone cables are new. The headphone amp in the SN3 had never been used until the Utopias. By “new “ I mean this past Wednesday March 6th 2024.
In that case, it should sound really good and only get better as the burn in process progresses, shouldn’t it?
I would take the XPS DR out of circuit, use one or other of the standard cables supplied with the Utopia’s and see how that sounds.
Then add each ‘upgrade’ in turn and see what changes.
If still not satisfied, return to your dealer for further consultation, if that’s the right word.
Good luck and ATB, J
@Osiris it is finally getting much better. Hence I will leave things alone and see how things progress. Given my disabilities I can’t switch around things as you suggest. Also room layout precludes using the standard cable.
That’s great news! I’m sure it will continue to improve into the further as did my own Atom HE/Utopia’s.
ATB, J
@Osiris it made no sense to consider the Atom HE. The streamer is significantly better in the NDX2/XPSDr. With the Atom HE, I would have been paying for functions I would never use. At some point in time I might consider a stand alone headphone amp for my Utopia headphones.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear, I was not suggesting you get an Atom HE, but rather reflecting my own burn in experience with that combination. And that your Utopia’s would in all probability follow a similar path 
.
ATB, J
Jaybar: alright - I dug the Focal Clear out of their nice protective case and wired to use a 6.3mm output (1/4 inch jack); it was 2am and I wasn’t sleeping, guilty I’d promised to do this check and hadn’t done anything to ‘prepare’.
My Clears hadn’t been fired up for around six months, and I’d never actually bothered to finish breaking them in when I realised their sound profile simply wasn’t for me…
At two thirty AM, having Nine Inch Nails “Into the Void” set to play on repeat (at 8:15am on the Nait volume pot), I briefly put the Clear on my head/over my ears…
The music I heard sounded really really good (in a way that no portable amp I have ever used has ‘sounded this good’)…
I went to bed (again) knowing that the Focal/Naim pairing is a really good one…
Whilst I had only listened for less than half a minute, the bass tautness, the staging and the easy to pick out depth rendering of ‘instruments’ (remember: “Nine Inch Nails”), was excellent.
The only weakness was the size of the soundfield… to my ears, the Clear do not perform like any other ‘open backs’ I have heard… they have always had a soundfield size equal to better closed backs, but, a hybrid like the Sony MDRZ7 outclasses them for staging… (and bass).
As for the Naim amp?
Brilliant…
I look forward to running a few test tracks via a Burson Conductor V2/Audio Gd R28/Nait XS3 (as headphone amps)…
If the Nait XS3 doesn’t hold its own against the big dogs, I will scale down the ancillories and compare to the iFi Diablo, and some other ‘more budget’ deskamps… etc…
Most critically - what music do you listen to (genre’s?)
As an example, I have a DAP (digital audio player) that has 4x Sabre DAC chips AND a valve stage, and allows ‘switching’ on the fly easily…
It becomes clear to see that different amp topologies work best with ‘certain genres’ of music, and my experience with many (many) headphone amps over the decades would confirm that ‘beyond volume’ most headamps would be chosen for the GENRES that they are optimised to do best…
The sleepy/relaxed bass note from the valve preamp: nice for jazz, but not ideal for high beats per minute electronica (the quad DAC/no tube output would do that genre better)…
I will listen to the genres you prefer via the Naim kit and check for the matchup…
To be fair - orchestral music is some of the hardest to reproduce- requires dynamic swings, incredible signal to noise ratio, accurate LAYERED positioning and timing, timing, timing…
There isn’t always a lot to sort the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, when listening to ‘easier to drive’ genres…
That being said- Rock can require rendering phase shifting guitars etc,… and so - can a given amp play back the genre you seek is the REAL QUESTION…
From what I heard, briefly, this morning; the Nait included headamps are ‘the real deal’ and not shabby.
Again- I use mine weekly when I have two ‘better’ (technically) headamps on desk that require no effort to use…
Majority of the home amplifiers I have ever seen have headphone socket as an afterthought/bulletpoint, and the internal wiring shows THAT…
The Naits ARE very decent headphone amps, certainly VS the majority of consumer fi that floods the market…
Hence why I will bench the Naits’ internal headamp vs ‘really good desktop seperates’.
TL : DR (too long; didn’t read)?
please share with me your five favourite recordings to listen to (/genre preferences).
Cheers/ Thanks in advance.
@whitedragem Thsnks do much. You asked about the music I listen to.
Music Categories;
Jazz
Chamber
Female vocals
Baroque
Early music
Opera
Folk
A cappella
Artists:
Dylan
Judy Collin’s
Joni Mitchel
Lenard Cohen
Miles Davis
Oscar Peterson
Bruce Springsteen
Tracey Chapman
Odetta
Weavers
Pete Seeger
Harry Belafonte
Sony Rollins
Emet Cohen
Ron Carter
Theodore Bikel
Silly Wizzard
The Chieftains
The list goes on. Thanks again.
good news;
because you are not exclusively into ‘one genre’- tuning for ‘one genre’ doesn’t have to be a thing.
Whilst I personally think you’d love a valve amp for the MAJORITY of what you’ve just given me (creamy vocals being a big boon)…
due to the nature of Supernait being a Solidstate tuned to sound like VALVE… I’d reason you are definately best served by running with what you are using now…
To be fair- the is zero point in comparing amps until you have around 1200 hours on those headphones as their sound will continue to change noticably and as it is in ‘lots of 50/80/100/150/200 hours (it does taper off or have ‘gear changes’ every so often’)
…the Clear I broke in were an undefined mess out of the box- if I hand’t bought bricks and mortar I’d have thunk’ ‘knock off’ (and not a good one in any way)… but around 80hours things started to have a little focus… now I was listening to music… (some genres might have changed ‘for the worse’; ie if you like undefined sound effects coming from all around you…)… around 120 hours I can honestly say was the first listenable experience, whereby it simply wasn’t just pain coming from any other set of headphones, and I do not mean physical comfort…
If you are wearing them a lot during your break in you will get better sound sooner…
I believe the pads need at least XX hours, and will continue to shape (soften) until 800+… The bass will improve SIGNIFICANTLY in the first 400 hours for a range of reasons,.largely as most would ‘concede’ (if against the concept of electrical breakin) that pad break in is easily a thing… and most would agree that driver surround needs become more flexible whilst ‘other areas’ harden…
I didn’t like the sound from 400-650 hours… but I also have a ~10% mix of Aluminium/(Al) which will no doubt move the goalposts for when the Utopia will exhibit the weird treble thing that happens with metal drivers…
Once you are on the other side of the settling…
you will have soundstage and cohesion and well… a lot more… and they should be much noticably less fatiguing to listen to.
After 650 hours I enjoyed listening but noticed verticality and absolute dimension was still solidly kicking in with each ‘check up’ (interval of wait and ‘break in’ time passing)…
Bass tautness and certainly speed/delicacy are not givens for quite awhile is, erm,… just my 2cents prediction.
Take it with a Salt shaker…
Do however leave your headwear and everything in your critical audio path on and cohesioning/homeostasising.
Again. out of box I thought ‘worst junkfi’ and the $50 Sony 900HD knockoffs I bought twenty years ago FLOGGED the sound… but,… after a couple of hundred hours was a different beast.
Music genre and familiarity with the track playback (how it should sound, subjectively as you like it being your target), isn’t entirely psychosomatic… sure we accomodate anything over time… and if we need to adapt we do, but headphones do have a breakin or settling period where they do have observable change, if moderate, but sometimes significant…
I have never bought new kit and ‘seriously listened to it’ straight from box (even kit without physically moving parts).
80 hours min, ideally 400 and if I can stretch some more time after 400 I do try to …
the last little nuances of echo and decay that settle (generally the last stuff to be observable to me) is what I seriously want in place before I have my first experience with a product (no second chance at a first impresion)
With that wonderful cable they should do very well.
I came to realise that the Clear was worthy a product of buying a cable upgrade for it to not hold it back… and that was when I decided to simply go back to my Ultrasone Edition 5 as it , to me, was a better headphone in every metric AND already had a cable upgrade in place.
Time is friend. I will make a playlist of whatever I have by those artists (thankyou SO MUCH) and will see if any significant stage sizing or absolute detail is to be expected.
I personally love the valve like sound of Naim kit.
(seriously they use looser tolerance parts in key areas to ‘valven’ the sound-VERY CLEVER!)
another post as different focus-
on the amp I found 0815 a light volume (lower than I’d listen to in most situations, but maybe good for beside partner in bed with openbacks.), and dialing hte volume up to 1000 was spot on for nice driver excursion and proper slam… (the OPs wont be there yet),…
knowing I have headroom beyond the needs of a human being listening to music from the Nait, the headphone amp certainly meets one of the major criteria for any amplifier- have ability to control the driver units…
I believe it should have the speed (SN3 has the nnew boosted slew rate, and I believe some of that benefit is in the preamp circuitry, not just the output stage)…
and due to having driver control in abundance (the weight of your amps power supply is a LOT heavier than most every headphone amp ever built)… your amp is ‘sufficient’ to drive the Utopia (very well indeed)
I’d predict that 12’oclcok on the volume dial would be clipping for some genres, and 1300 clipping for most others…
I believe you have enough power to actually hurt the headphones if you listen to Billy Eilish and crank the volume…
don’t do THAT
edit: Clear are 55ohm, Utopia are 90ohm, so you should be safe to turn the volume dial to anywhere you normally would .