Thanks a lot @BruceW
My friend can lend me a NAC 202 / NAP 200. Do you think it’s worth trying?
The idea would be to see if it gives me any clue as to whether the 282/250 could work for me.
What worries me is that if I don’t get on with the 202/200, I might wrongly dismiss the 282/250, even though it could actually suit me better. I know they’re not in the same league, but could trying the 202/200 still make sense?
I don’t think you could say if a 202/200 worked well that a 282/250 would too. The latter would be more revealing and dynamic, perhaps a bit livelier./brighter Not sure that works for your problem? For you ‘better’ may not be better tolerated.
Of course if you liked the 202/200 you could just track down the same s/h. I’d be more confident of a 52/252 than an 82/282 actually. The original 52 is a lovely clear and clean preamp with a fantastically engaging sound that is never busy or fatiguing. The 252 is a bit darker, more detailed and more dynamic. The 52/52PS is one of the few Naim components I wish I had kept, even if only for a second system.
You’d have to buy with care though, servicing and history for PS and preamp etc. 252’s really need the DR power supply (Supercap) to shine in my experience.
Bruce
I can’t see what harm there is in trying the 202/200.
I had a 202/150x and 202/250 (olive) and 282/250.2 in my time with Naim. I rarely heard night and day cathartic differences during upgrades. There is a “sound” in common among them all. You might even prefer the 202/200.
However as mentioned above in reality speakers/room interaction probably effects the sound most. However in your situation this may not be as relevant as some frequency or “flavour” that Naim electronics bring. So well worth testing I feel.
.sjb
So by the end of next week, I will be able to test the 202/200 combo at home … plus the cd5xs
Sounds like a plan!
That’s a nice combination. It was the CD5x I had (initially) with my 202 and I have wondered over the years whether I should have stopped there or at least paused there for a decent amount of time.
You may want to pay attention to speaker cable. Ideally NACA5 but there are requirements as to impedance and length.
.sjb
Hello,
I had the chance to try the NAC202/NAP200 combo, and the verdict was pretty quick: I found it hard to listen for more than 15 minutes without significant ear fatigue. It’s not about timbre, but really the energy and liveliness.
I’m not questioning the quality of the combo at all, it’s just not for me. Switching back to the Pass Labs, I was able to relax.
Then I tried the CD5XS and recognized the sound signature I had liked at my friend’s place, which is what prompted this post. The liveliness felt much less extreme, so ear fatigue was way lower, though it still appeared during longer sessions.
Bottom line: this isn’t the sound that works for me. Finding the perfect setup is tough, especially with hyperacusis, but I’ll keep searching. I suspect the answer lies at the source, especially the DAC.
Hi Reptilia,
sorry to hear about your problems with hyperacusis and the not so great experience with the borrowed Naim amplifiers. Reading the whole thread had me wondering, if some of my preferences might be something that would allow you to listen without getting stressed. I like to listen at relatively low volumes. A certain amount of substance and scale, combined with fine tonal and dynamic shading are also quite important for me. Therefore I value speakers and amplifiers that don’t need to be run at a high output level to sound balanced. A Naim Supernait 2 did that for me, but was little low on timbre for the long run. The best amplifiers for low level listening were the Bow ZZ One and the IPA 80 and 140 from Norma. Bow Technologies are no longer in business, maybe you can find a Norma dealer near you. I have no experience with Vienna speakers, but Harbeth always seemed to be ones asking for a little higher level than I want to listen to.
I have no measure to say why you found the Naim system to suit your condition. I might have guessed otherwise in terms of suitability, but what you were listening to was an excellent Naim setup. Although Naim equipment has the reputation to be as you say, for me, it is also a very clean sound and uncluttered. Perhaps this is what you are tuning into.
I would have also thought (guessed?) that a valve class A amp system could be good in your circumstance and also A Sugden Class A, which are favourites of mine and I think have a softer soothing well rounded sound. However, that is a whispered) shot in the dark in relation to your hyperacusis.
Hi @reptilia. I’m very sorry to hear of your hyperacusis and I hope you soon find a music system that really works for you.
I confess to being a little surprised by your enjoying the CDX2/282 and not the 202/200 as both the CDX2 and 282 have a bit of a reputation for being rather forward and even aggressive. Some have rather rapidly moved on to 252 and CDS. That got me wondering whether the acoustics of the rooms you were listening in might have played a significant role in your experience. If so, auditioning candidate components in your own listening room would be highly desirable, but I don’t know how feasible that is in France. If Naim dealers are thin on the ground locally, perhaps another brand that you could hear first might be a safer bet.
Best wishes and hope your search proves successful before too long.
Roger
Hello,
And thanks to all of you for your kind and helpful replies.
Thanks for your amp recommendations. Your suggestion about the Norma is interesting — I’ve never listened to that brand before. I’ll keep it in mind if I end up moving away from the Pass Labs.
My only hesitation with the Pass is that it might be a bit too “high-end,” to reuse the expression mentioned earlier. It combines smoothness with precision, and it also has the big advantage of offering very fine volume adjustment (1 dB per step). The Nac202 wasn’t nearly as precise, and that was a problem for me since I listen at very, very low levels — sometimes the difference of just 1 dB can make or break listening comfort.
I agree with you on Class A. So far, aside from tube amps (a “no go” for me), only Class A amps have worked for me. I was tempted by the Sugden A21 and nearly went for it, but I read several reports saying it’s a rather lively amp with a strong sonic character. That feedback put me off a bit — though I’ve also read the opposite 
In reply to PeakMan
I was also surprised by the listening results compared to the session at my friend’s place a few months back. Of course the rooms are different (though with the same listening distance), but many other things change too: his speakers (PMC twenty5 23i), his speaker cables, his source cabling. I could only try the CD5XS as a transport since the DAC section wasn’t working. A shame, since that was what I was most interested in.
Of course the best option is to try gear at home, but it’s really difficult to get access to equipment (especially amps and speakers).
I did several tests this morning that turned out to be quite interesting.
I put all the stock power cords back on my gear.
For interconnects, I used an Acrolink 6N-A2400 II RCA (replacing my prototype cable which gives a huge open soundstage and a lot of transparency).
I think my setup should be able to work properly like this. The “fine tuning” can come afterwards.
First setup
Accuphase DP-60 (with its built-in DAC, 2x PCM58P-K) → Pass Labs → Vienna Haydn
In terms of rhythm and energy it’s fine. But there’s still this brightness that bothers me, especially on vocals or reverberant recordings (which are the worst for me).
Second setup
Accuphase DP-60 → Aqua La Voce (first version, 2x PCM1704)
The stage moves back, it loses some depth, I gain comfort, but on tracks with reverb the issue doesn’t disappear completely.
Third setup
Accuphase DP-60 → Audio Note DAC 2.1x (AD1865N + 2 Philips JAN 6DJ8 tubes)
I had previously ruled this one out because it added too much presence for me and had a high output gain. But maybe that extra gain is actually useful at my very low listening levels, to keep at least some dynamics.
This is the first time I’ve tried it in this setup with all stock cables.
Here, the brightness is completely gone and the listening comfort is immediate.
I was able to listen for two hours straight without any discomfort — and with real enjoyment, because it truly made beautiful music.
Of course, this is still fragile, and I’ll need several days to confirm. Maybe by tonight I’ll already have unplugged it because it doesn’t work out after all.
What’s clear:
Thanks again to all of you for your help and contributions 
To be continued
If A Sugden is of interest I think the A21SE is the better amp for tone and clarity. As I recall much better than a Naim and many other amps at playing low volume in my view.
My experience is that I can listen more comfortably to louder music (measured with a decibel meter) through a better system as there is less distortion. Hope this helps & good luck with your system search.
Have you tried Sonus Faber speakers ? Precise, smooth, very nice tones, without being dull.
@Robinho this is the SE version and not the A21SE Signature version, right?
By any chance, do you know if the volume control is very precise at low levels?
@frenchrooster I considered Sonus Faber and almost went for the Amator II. But since I listen in near field, I need not only a compact format (that part is fine) but also to avoid rear-firing ports.
I also read that the more recent models no longer have the sweetness and charm of the older generations.
The latter, however, have aged aesthetically.
The Sugden volume control on the physical knob and remote is in smooth small increments.
Sugden’s are good at low volume level although most Class A amps are, it is a kind of feature of that type of amplification on the whole.
So maybe Harbeth. But don’t remember where the rear fire ports are.
This is not surprising to me. I also get fatigue easily and I found this to be the case with most of the OC kit including NDX2. Perhaps your friend’s system sounded good b/c of their room acoustics/treatment. Or it was the PMCs or both. So if you decide on a OC system you may be able to find a happy place with some additional room treatments.
Unless there’s a malfunction with your electronics, I suspect 99% of what you hear (and like) is in the full size speakers. Small speaker often need to play loud to deliver the goods whereas larger speakers can perform well at moderate volumes.
Not surprised at your response to your friends Harbeths - the XD series was not a step forward and have already been replaced with the XD2 series.
I have a similar condition to the OP. Sympathetic tinnitus where certain frequencies ring like a bell and can be quite uncomfortable. In the background I always have that sensation you get like when you walk into a house and you can instantly sense a CRT is powered on.
Over a listening session it seems to get worse and the volume gets nudged down progressively as the discomfort increases.
I find this doesn’t impact listening much. Although I listen for hours a day, it’s usually background music. A concentrated album session is within my tolerance level. But having two systems helps. In one room I have a 282/250 driving PMCs and it is exuberant and visceral. But the room is well treated to reduce the worst HF glare. In another room I have a smoother sounding Luxman tube amp and full range tweeterless speakers. So given a bad day, I can fall back to that.