Are you saying I should maybe be looking at small floorstanders instead?
That’s exactly what I’ve been wondering today, because in about three weeks I’ll need to buy new stands for the Vienna Acoustics (they were only loaned to me). So if I’m going to change speakers, now’s probably the right time.
Things I see as positives with small floorstanders:
• more natural weight and foundation in the lower registers
• the tweeter sits lower than on standmounts (though of course I could just get shorter stands)
• nicer aesthetics overall
What worries me:
• if the speakers are too big for the room, I’ll basically be stuck.
• on one hand I’m afraid of ending up with a sound that’s too thin, but on the other hand I’m also afraid of having too much acoustic pressure even at very low volume.
For context, my room is long and narrow, but I listen across the width in nearfield. I have 320 cm between the front and back walls, and my listening triangle is 220 cm.
On top of that, the choice isn’t easy since there aren’t that many options. I think I should probably stick with a silk-dome tweeter.
It’s not really a concern. It is very easy to have a speaker too small for a room. The opposite, however, is almost never true, though it can be a matter of aesthetic dislike. The volume control exists for a reason, And generally the larger the speaker, the more convincing they play at very low volumes. A lot of small speakers need a fair bit of power to wake up and perform.
One of the best speakers I ever heard for really low level quiet listening was the JBL L100 Classic. Was like being wrapped in a warm blanket. Lush, detailed, unfatiguing. And that is a fairly sizeable speaker.
Unfortunately, as a new member of this forum, I’m not yet allowed to post pictures of my room.
The distance between the front of the sofa and the front of the speakers is 140 cm. I’ve pulled the speakers 45 cm away from the back wall (measured from the rear of the cabinets).
With floorstanding speakers, there’s a good chance I might need to pull them even further out, which would place them way too close to my ears. This also has to be considered given my hyperacusis. That’s why I say I could potentially end up stuck with speakers that are just too big for my space.
At the same time, I could minimize the risk with compact floorstanders (something like the PMC twenty5 23i format — though I don’t think they’d be the right candidates), where the tweeter wouldn’t be exactly at ear height and the drivers are smaller.
Of course, I don’t have any certainties about all this.
I’ve already tried adding GIK Acoustics 60x120 cm absorber panels behind the speakers, but it didn’t work.
The stands are made of birch with Soundcare Superspikes.
I’ve also tried placing them on granite slabs — at first I thought it worked quite well, but in the end the highs became too pronounced. For me, these kinds of tweaks have never really worked; I always end up reaching the same conclusion.
Speakers have all sorts of placement requirements and being floorstanders neither increases or decreases the distance from the rear wall. It totally depends on the speaker. Some are even boundary designs intended to go right up against a wall. Others need to come out a bit. When a speaker needs to be away from a rear wall, that generally means 30cm or so.
I’m not sure the PMC would be my first choice for your condition. They aren’t sharp and clinical but they have some bite. I have the Twenty5.23s (two pairs in fact) so know from first hand experience. They can go within 15cm of a rear wall quite happily though. They also need to be cranked up a bit to come alive. Not really a low level listening kind of speaker. I think that is common for speakers with smaller bass units unfortunately. From what you have said about your listening preferences, I would be looking for a speaker larger bass unit but not necessarily worry about whether it is stand mount or floor standing unless you have a visual preference. I’m sure there are exceptions but in my experience larger bass cones are more convincing at low levels.
You could also consider wall hung speakers if space is a major concern. I don’t mean bookshelf speakers on brackets but actual wall hugging flat speakers. There are some serious hi-fi ones out there. The DALI Rubicons have a very smooth top end with their ribbon tweeter and there are others. I’ve heard good things about the smooth presentation of Harbeth also. As Naim amps are already on the aggressive side even a laid back speaker isn’t ever going to sound boring.
Do you really have no dealer nearby that can present you with some listening options?
Another choice would be Audio Note speakers. They are not aggressive at all, work with low power, and can be placed in the corners. The distance from the sofa will be longer.
@feeling_zen I’ve got a hi-fi dealer nearby who carries some great brands and has already lent me quite a few electronics to try out.
But I’ve never really found something that suited me, because it’s quite difficult to find gear in the modern market that I actually enjoy. Most manufacturers seem to be moving towards a more and more clinical sound that reveals details even the sound engineer probably never heard :)))
So now I feel a bit awkward asking him again if I might end up not buying anything in the end. In my previous setup, he pushed quite hard to bring PMC over to my place, but I never really believed in them… maybe wrongly.
Bigger speakers will definitely increase the sense of presence, and while “presence” is usually considered a quality in a system, in my case I just can’t handle it. I need the soundstage to stay relatively distant and more 2D than 3D — almost as if I were sitting in the back row at a concert.
@frenchrooster sorry, but I really don’t like the look of Audio Note speakers – their design is just way too particular for me.
So yeah, it’s not simple
So you all seem to agree that I should change the speakers first?
Don’t get me wrong, my system already sounds quite good, but I always feel there’s still some discomfort with the timbre.
I think a big reason I get on so well with the NC kit is that it’s so quiet and natural sounding. I can listen for extended periods of time without fatigue and at higher volumes than I could before. I’m also able to listen to recordings that were mostly unbearable to listen to previously. And all have more detail and space and distinct low frequencies that fill the room without any harshness from the high frequencies. Such a treat.
@reptilia I found Naim gear to be a bit forward, lots of Prat but not very laid back which sounds like you’re looking for , a more laid back sound.. wide soundstage and deep. I recently bought ATC Active speakers. Now I’ve owned lots of speakers over the years.. I owned many pairs of ProAc which I found exceptionally easy on the ears. The Ribbon tweeter they use is very low distortion very easy and natural sounding. I assume you want to stick with book shelve speakers.. ProAc D2R would be a good choice in conventional speakers. Going in a different direction the new ATC SCM20ASL which is an Active 2 way might work for you. The cool thing with the Active ATC’s is that you can influence the sound by the gear you use. They are all analog. and their are numerous dealers in France.. FYI they are the most neutral easy to listen too speakers I’ve ever owned ATC SCM40 actives. Good luck..
Yes, it’s my feeling that you could try other speakers, because Pass Labs is known for its smooth sound. But it may be the room also. Have you a lot of absorbing materials on the floor, walls…Absorbing curtains if the windows are near the speakers ?
@opus Interesting suggestion about the ATCs. If I could save myself from having to deal with a separate amp and the speaker cable connection, that would definitely be one less headache
A while back I contacted a professional (who also does studio recording) about active speakers, explaining my constraints, and he told me they would always sound too forward.
That’s why I gave up on the idea — although I’d really like to try them and make up my own mind.
Of course, we all have different sensitivities.
I’d be curious to get your impressions on a track I often use for testing (‘Eyes to the Wind’ by The War On Drugs). At around the 20-second mark, there’s an instrument that comes in with a very, very fine whistling tone — it actually matches the frequency of my tinnitus, which makes it particularly unpleasant. On systems that are very (or overly) transparent, it really stands out — and as I mentioned, I suppose it could be quite uncomfortable, even for someone without any ear issues.
I’d be interested to hear how you perceive it on your ATCs, and also from the other participants in this thread.
Basically, the acoustics in my room aren’t great because of the tiled floor.
I’ve put down a very large, thick rug, and my sofa is quite big too, so that takes up a fair bit of the listening space.
On the left side I’ve got a bay window nearby (I know, the worst). I’ve added curtains, but they’re not absorbent since this is my living room and it’s the only source of natural light.
And as I mentioned, I also tried putting up some GIK absorption panels, but that was counterproductive — the sound became completely dead and unpleasant.
It’s a shame because I’ve got some photos I’d like to share, but since I’m a new member I can’t post links yet (my messages still have to be approved). Do you know how many posts it takes before that restriction is lifted?
I’m surprised to find myself saying this, but I think you would be a prime candidate for a tube amp (some great ones on the market - I’m fond of the Luxman’s) and a large speaker. Like one of the JBL studio monitors or Klipsche. Some stand mounts are as big or bigger than most floor standers. I’d be very tempted in your position to locate a second hand pair of L100 Classics (I don’t own them but I have loved them every time I heard them). And you can adjust the response on the tweaters with them.
As a point of reference, I have two main systems, one is the Naim/PMC pairing, but the other is Luxman tube amp into Omega Junior 8 XRS. I love both systems. They sound polar opposite but I love the tube amp with Omega speaker system for all the things the Naim/PMC system isn’t and vice versa. BTW, don’t bother looking up Omega - you can’t pair them with Naim.
I can’t hear any whistling sound that’s not part of the music even when I turn it up. I’m listening to a lossless rip from Qobuz on my local server so perhaps the recording is different.
Rather than link to the photos, attach them directly. You can either upload them directly or right click copy them from an online source and then right click paste them in an update and that should actually attach the image rather than simply link to it.
I think I didn’t express myself very well with “not part of the music.” It’s more like a sort of harmonic in quotes, but it doesn’t really add anything.
I don’t even know which instrument it comes from. I hear it both on Qobuz and on CD.
A friend of mine noticed it very clearly on his system (which I haven’t heard), and it bothered him a lot because it matched the frequency of his tinnitus – same as for me.
But on my system, depending on the cables and DAC, I can hear it more or less.
That’s why I was asking you. So I think we’re actually talking about the same thing after all
Thanks for testing it.
Regarding pictures, still I don’t have rights to attach/embed media in my messages.
