And how do you know when your system is neutral? You make claims your new setup is more neutral and how do you know that ia? You don’t even know how it sounded in the studio? Neutral ia a strange word in hifi since every part of it colour the sound and so dosa your Mogami cables to big extent. It’s just a matter of finding synergy that best trigger your music endorphins. Some prefer super detail flat and some more warm. If I change cables in my system it is impossible knowing what is most close to the truth I wasn’t in the studio. Everything colour the result. It’s just a matter of finding what you like be it 552 or DCS. A straight frequency curve rarely sound fun and engaging because your ear is most sensitive in the mids since our ears are developed for voices.
You are completely missing the point.
I fed my streamer directly into my 500dr amp, so i completely removed the 552dr from the loop. It doesn’t matter what the streamer is, as every source you feed it will come out differently sounding.
The difference in sound took me by surprise, as suddenly it had more detail, bass, more dynamic, wider, everything was just better. I was expecting the sound to just collapse, but it was the 552 that was making it collapse, it never went back in, thats how different it was.
But doing this just shows how much the 552 changes things, there is no magic or tricks going on.
Like i said i never would have believed it or even tried it, if i hadn’t been told to give it a go from another 552 owner.
But in life its all a learning curve as they say, and every day is a school day, if you want it to be.
Is it a streaming pre amp? So fed directly into the 500 it’s using the pre amp in the streamer and into the 552 it’s bypassing the onboard preamp?
Went straight from 282 to 552… Never liked this kind of “softness” in 252 in contrast to the energy of 282.
552 is my has-it-all and final preamp. Its insight into music is truly breath-taking. My journey ends here.
Hi
My streamer doesn’t have a pre amp, it just has a digital volume control.
It’s quite complicated how it works, and i could copy some bits and paste it up, but then if you want to find out more, you could easily do a search.
But it works very well, much better now as well with the apex upgrade.
I would certainly not have a pre amp if i only had the one source, but I have a turntable and that rather complicates things.
The 252/SC2 was forgettable for me. I’d go 552 and 300DR if you can swing it.
@ElMarko you slate the 252 at every possible opportunity, but the fact it was a long time ago and you were using non DR with an old spec 250 you never mention….
We all get you like your 272 but many of us who have had 272/250DR think 252/300DR blows it away.
My 252 + 300 non DR is a great amplifier and teamed with SL2, I would hardly describe or characterise it with a “softness” presentation. It pleases me and that is what is important
You are not in the position to claim I make any claim at every possible opportunity so you should should refrain from making such claims.
When I state SC2 that is indeed old spec. So again, stay in your lane. I’ll share my poor experience with that amp as much as I please just like anyone else. And you’re right, the 272/555DR/250DR slays my former 252 set up. All day long, every day. And I never made your last claim. More projection on your part.
A search shows otherwise.
Anyone can put ElMarko 252 into the search box
p.s. I never said you claimed 272 is better than 252. Cling on to it. You consistently rave about 272/555/250 as is your wont.
It’s a recurring theme
And you bought the 252 a very, very long time ago
Maybe you just don’t want to upgrade
Well just for you I’ll be sure to increase the frequency of my criticisms of that lackluster amp so that I indeed approach criticizing it at every possible opportunity.
The 252/SC2/250.2 combo has been known on the forums a while as being a turd combo
Good move. If it were me, I’d also skip the 252 and go for 552 if funds permit. Why settle for 2nd best when it’s so close to the best especially when one can afford it.
However, the experience of Simon in Suffolk also suggests that it may be wise to check on the speakers. In my view, Simon’s preference of the 252 to 552 in his system is very likely a case of speaker amp matching where bright / analytical / cold sounding speakers will often sound better with warmer, more restrained or laid back sounding amps, in this case 252. Perhaps ATC don’t match too well with 552?
Other ears…
As for the suggestion that a 552 may be a poor match for ATC, I get the impression from the ATC thread that that is not a consensus view. Others will doubtless have more informed comment than me.
ATC speakers, especially the Entry range are very good value for money speakers. They produce a sound, which I would expect to hear in a recording studio, when used as monitor speakers. This is after all, where ATC started out. However, i.e. PMC Twenty5 range produce a different sound. A sound that allows you to immerse yourself in the music. You do not feel like your listening to a ‘stunt’ speaker, the sound integrates better rather being pinpoint, like ATC. PMC seems, imho to be a better match to Naim electronics. I think it was Linn that came up with the observation about Linn Sondek’s, that they make you want to tap your foot to the music, rather than other turntables. Well, for me that is how I feel about PMC compared to ATC. As stated, ATC make some fantastic sounding speakers (Entry range), but for me, PMC Twenty5 let me boogie along with the music more.
Might be but the 252/SC2DR/250.2 is one of the magical Naim combos that have been often mentioned over the years - one of the best out there in my experience. In hindsight I probably preferred that overall to my 552DR/2502.2 combo for its sheer musicality, transparency and ability to embrace all sources and mastering styles. The 552DR is far more fussy on sources, but get the right source and master and it can sing. For example the CDX2 into 252/SC2DR is heaven for may genres. Put the CDX2 into a 552 and it just gets a little too forward a lot of the time and even glarey for my tastes. (That is with and without a seperate PSU)
I do think the tastes fall into two halves. There is the forward bias of 282 and 552 - that a lot enjoy; and there is the 202 and 252 more euphoric and somewhat less forward in the upper mids - that many enjoy. Isn’t it great Naim have both of these evolution trees for you to choose to match preference.
If you really enjoy a 282 - I think you will gel more with a 552 when upgrading, if you found the 282 a little too forward for tastes and were fiddling with PSUs, cables etc to tame then the upgrade to the 252DR possibly might be your ideal upgrade and journey’s end.
The 202 with a DR preamp was significantly improved over the non DR - but I did find the 202 performance quite a bit below the other NACs mentioned here. - all in my experience of course - and I have owned all the devices mentioned.
I agree that is not something I recognise. The room acoustics and personal tastes are probably far more to do with it.
The 552 is a more forward sounding NAC and so more transparent speakers in the upper mids and a not so heavily damped room with the 552 might not gel that well.
I have heard some shocking 552 setups of owners with various speakers of many manufacturers - but the rooms being too bright acoustically or otherwise relatively reverberant. I have also heard some amazing 552 setups in very large and likely critically damped spaces.
And the end of the day ATC speakers tend to be rather transparent and neutral compared to many domestic hifi speakers that let the music do the boogying - rather than the colourations from the speaker!!- and if some electronics generally always sounded bad with ATC speakers - (which even the domestic hifi variants of ATC borrow from their professional recording monitor models) - I suspect that would say something rather negative about the electronics - but as I say I don’t believe that is the case wit the 552 and ATCs at all… there is nothing fundamentally faulty with the 552 design. It’s a great preamp and with revealing speakers like the ATCs in the right listening environment it can sound wonderful.
On a separate but connected matter - it is interesting how you can master to make a track sound like its boogey and timing better - and you can do so by adding frequency specific and frequency triggered compression with some time constants that match the music beat - this is what can be achieved in certain amps and speakers as well through (possibly deliberate or accidental distortion) . But I feel it is better to let the recording and master do this - rather than replay system try and overlay this through modifying the overall replay. An acid test is to use quality headphones… if the recording and master boogeys and times there - then it should on your replay system.
Is 252/200DR much weaker than 252/250DR? If yes, in which area?
Start with very different degrees of bass grip and go up from there?
At greater than $20k usd turd is not a characteristic I would expect. I was so ready to love that setup. Biggest let down in my Naim journey. Like a jilted lover as they say. That experience is a big reason I won’t be jumping head first into the NSC range.