Not wanting to risk the wrath of any particular camp but here’s my thoughts. Disclosure first; I have a 252/SCDR. Last year I spent some time at Signals with the intention of hearing what the Radikal 2 upgrade could to do. Whilst there I took the opportunity to hear the 552 vs the 252 in their dem room through 250DR and Kudos T808. I didn’t spend long enough to write a four page review on the subtle/ not so subtle differences but at the end of the day the 552 was clearly the more revealing pre. Having said that the difference wasn’t so great that I began plotting how I could get the extra money together to replace my 252. The Radikal 2 on the other hand was ordered on the spot.
What an odd thing to say and I think you need to read properly what I wrote. Far from it! The 552 is a much better amp! The 252 is also a very good amp, but clearly not as good as a 552 and that’s it. No Naim product at that level warrants such “tongue in cheek” or better still grossly inaccurate remarks, which in fairness is not usually the case with Nigel
When someone says that I’ve misunderstood something and I have not then sorry but I don’t accept such remarks and I will respond accordingly. For what it’s worth I’ve known Nigel virtually for many years, almost 20 in fact and I think I can be the judge of a tongue in cheek remark.
A Knight / Nait is all we need.
I rarely disagree with you .sjb but calling any Naim product a turd on the Naim Forum is a bit smelly don’t you think? And yes I do own a 252
To be fair, I don’t think it was SJB or HH who initiated the ‘turd’ war.
Current or past crusaders ?
.sjb
I remember that hi-fi show years ago when a gang of 252 Knights – some carrying concealed Burndies – infiltrated a Naim demo room full of 552 Crusaders… Oof! Carnage.
Fortunately the police responded quickly.
I’ve never heard a 252, but I’m a happy owner of a 552DR (I previously owned a 282 non-DR).
One of the pleasant surprises was how well the 552 handles lesser sources. This contradicts the conventional wisdom of a more resolving component being “unforgiving” or whatever. I’ve found that it does this so well that it’s changed my listening habits, so that I’ll only put a record on if I’m having a proper listening session and giving it my full attention. If I want to listen to something while I’m reading or doing something else, I’ll usually stream it on the Node, even if I have it on vinyl.
With a little bit of “man maths,” I can now justify a more expensive cartridge
It certainly is world class … I stand by that… and was satisfied with my 552 … otherwise I wouldn’t have bought it… however over a period of time I found it didn’t quite give me the same tingling moments on certain recordings my previous 252 had done… my 552 gave me more insightful but perhaps a less euphoric presentation… and at that time I was getting into music production, and enjoyed listening into the techniques on how masters were made and the 552 gave me that with my Chord DACs.
Let’s be honest the 252 and 552 are both iconic and world class NACs… with the 552 I believe having more renown.
The points I make now if doing NACs again I would likely stick with a 252 DR … your room probably has a lot to do with matching NACs, and be wary of some of sonic hyperbole written about the 552.
and be wary of some of sonic hyperbole written about the 552.
Just to add some real clarity to the 552 and 252 discussions
I think you have hit the nail on the head here. The difference in room dynamics may present differing perceptions of any equipment and we all go in search of “the best” gear , sometimes blind to the influence exerted by the environment around them. Having just moved I am struggling with a very lively boomy floor and an environment which flattens the treble detail somewhat. It’s a work in progress and probably would be the same with any equipment. However certain things work in specific scenarios.
I remember in a previous house having a room which made every speaker I tried sound indifferent and boring. I eventually tried a pair of Linn Keilidh speakers which I would never have considered in a dealer listening room demo over the others I tried. It does show how other factors can influence the outcome. They just worked in that room where others failed. Even the dealer was astonished at the outcome which neither of us expected.
I’ve had both the 252 and 552 and I’d agree that they are both world class amps.
My advice to anyone making the choice is to get an extended listen to both in your own room with your own system and go for the one that makes you want to listen more!
Yes I have a 552, but the 252 is also a great piece of kit and may be the better option for some. Whilst we can explore all sorts of room treatment, the majority of us are limited in what can be done by the fact that the room is also a family living space !
There is an actual possibility of getting a 552DR just around the corner for about the same price as a 252/super cap Dr. difference is about 1500£. Is it a no-brainer? The 552 is old but recapped and DR:ed 2019.
Both are used by the way. The 252/super cap DR is MY 2020.
Yes!
G
Yes!
I’d say!
Ding dong !
All this about the room, etc and etc.
Lets not forget what a pre amp is for, and what it should do.
It’s to allow more than one source to be connected and easily switched between.
To allow for the gain to be adjusted, as in volume control.
The better the pre amp, the less you should be able to hear it, it’s that simple really.
That’s why naim make so many different ones, and as you go up the range, you should start to hear the pre amp having less effect on the single.
The less it effects the single the better you can really hear what your source is doing.
It’s no good having a great source and not good pre amp, as the pre amp will just flatten the sound down to what it can only do.
So saying the room is to blame is not really right, as like i said the better the pre amp, the less it gets in the way, so it’s then more the rest off the components that you are hearing.
I often wounded why it was that i didn’t get the gains i was expecting when i tried certain things that i could clearly hear at the dealers on his system, well now i know.
The 552 will be better than the 252, in that it should do less to the signal it receives, and until you reach the point where the source is better, then all will be fine. So it will be more transparent, letting you hear more of what the source can do.
The same goes for the 552 as well.
As always its about balance. Pointless having a nd555 running through a bottom of the range naim pre, same as if you go the other way.
Sorry Dunc, but this goes against what many people say about the 552. Take a look that it will even make a poor recording sound listenable etc etc…. I think there was one statement in that respect that made sense, that it probably does as you suggest, add/subtract less to make the end result more appealing musically. You however say that it colours things a lot. Not really my experience but then I have never listened to what you have now.
I might now be getting a little confused by this discussion (no change there ), but in my experience it’s precisely because the 552 adds and subtracts less from poor recordings, that it makes them more listenable, not because it adds something to them. The wider window to the music doesn’t change the recording quality, it just gets the musical message through more completely which allows me to better tolerate a poorly recorded record.