Nac 552 or 252?

I think to remember that, when you got the 552, you were using a Chord Hugo or Dave, right ?
If it was the case, a 252 with Chord source may be better balanced and less forward than with a 552.
I found personally the Dave too forward and analytical for my tastes. So with a 552 it can give too much energy and forwardness, bordering on the bright and aggressive.

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Last year, not working, I had a lot of time to spend. I went to listen to the most high end systems I could find in Paris. The first was a full Soulution system, considered by many reviewers and magazines as Absolute Sound or Stereophile to be among the best of the best , and the most neutral.
It was a near 300 k system.
The second was a system with middle Constellation electronics, Magico speakers and Tech Das entry level turntable = 35 k with cart) . 200 k system.
The third was a full FM Acoustics system ( 500 k).
The fourth was 552/500/ Nd555 one 555 dr/ top Apertura speakers : 120 k.

Guess which one I preferred ?
The Soulution and FM acoustics were the more resolving. The most detailed, dynamic, open, holographic, with the most resolving bass.
Probably more neutral than the Naim system. But what a disappointment, same for the Constellation. Great and impressive HIFI, but they didn’t engaged me at all. I listened each time a dozen of my favourites tracks through Qobuz or Tidal. I stood cold.
So better, certainly, vs the least expensive system, the Naim one. But better doesn’t mean more engaging or creating emotions and connection with the music. I feel Dunc struggles to understand that.

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Sounds like a good deal but only you can make that decision. It’ll be leagues ahead of the 252 so there’s that.

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I understand it thanks, as i have also tried and heard many systems.
As for the not engaging or musical rubbish that gets spoken about all the time, i think you would find my system very musical and engaging.
Infact just ask @MrUnderhill his thoughts on my system

In my system it was very colourful.
I guess there is no real way in a naim only system to really see what the pre amp is doing, as naim don’t make a source with a volume control.
You would have to get say a streamer with a good built in volume control and some cables made up to run direct, and then try i.
I guess that not many would try this, and i can’t see naim making say the next ND555 with a volume control, as if they did then i guess it would be the end of naim preamplifier days.

I’ve read about people here running NDX2 directly into naim amps using digital volume control. As far as I remember most of them found it worked but lacked the mojo.

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What digital volume control? Thats the issue, as a poor volume control is where all the trouble is.
The new volume in the new naim range, like whats in the S1. This i guess is where most of the gains are to be had.

But you can easily kill the dynamics with a poor volume

Agree fully. My journey have learned me that better is not more detail, more of everything. Technically you know it is more correct but still you find yourself trying to compensate with tweaks elsewhere since it doesn’t engage you. It’s like instant Redbull Vs a great red wine that needs hours to bloom. It’s easy to get fooled in hifi IMO since it often takes time to realise what did engage you and why the new more expansive stuff doesn’t. I still have a hard time in words explaining what 552 do that makes it so special to me. Same with 500. Things just come alive and you get a very special feeling connecting to music which I’ve never experience before. It’s not about details, treble, bass. I guess it’s about music.

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Well you seem happy, so just enjoy as that’s what its all about.

But will be interesting what naim do with the next 500 series kit, as i would say it will be more detail, more bass, more treble, etc, because as you get a lower noise level across the system all off these just pop out much more.
I feel you’re not going to like it as its not music ? Well i can’t see really what you are saying really.
As the information is always there on the recording, its just that you can’t hear it. More off every think doesn’t suddenly make it any less musical or engaging, when done right it’s even more musical and engaging as you just get drawn in by all the extra you are now getting.

But like most things in life, until you experience it for yourself then it’s hard to believe things

Well, it’s the same with tv-picture for me. The higher definition and soap opera effect and such just make it less inspiring to watch for me. I mean, you listen to vinyl with a really expensive phono stage and still vinyl lacks loads of dynamics and information compared to todays lossless digital sources.

Err no, not on my system, vinyl has loads of dynamics, and that’s against my vivaldi.
My turntable set up would put a lot of very expensive digital sources to shame.
It obviously sounds different as in more noisy, but that’s about it

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They are a lot who use the Vivaldi Apex full stack with the best preamps available, preferring that to straight into the power amp. No pre at all is not the pinnacle in audio Nirvana. But yes, in the meantime, the pre has in absolute terms not to add a sound of its own.
However absolute neutrality is not always the goal to achieve by all audiophiles.

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I haven’t heard your system. Can’t comment. I speak for myself, and I feel you should more often use the iconic IMHO in your posts…lol

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Hi @frenchrooster ,

I agree. Trying to assess systems is sooo complex, and my experience is that generally you never have enough time to do so properly. I find that trying to assess anything takes time.

Duncan was kind enough to invite me up and so a friend and I headed North. It is an excellent system that is a tad to the warm side. This is the first time I have heard the Vitus SIA30 and it is a beast which, with the Kudos 808s, produced well controlled and subterranean bass.

How does it measure up to other great systems I have heard, and have a chance to listen to more regularly? I think it is a fools errand to even try. It works damned well in Duncan’s room. Certainly, as you have mentioned, other systems can major in certain aspects, or on certain music etc.

I did ask Duncan whether his system demanded great files to perform well and he said he thought it was not kind to poorer recordings. Interestingly when I played ‘problem’ files it handled them well, extracting the music without poking me in the eye with the problems.

I do like bake offs, where groups of audiophiles get together to listen to each others systems. It breaks down the impersonal nature of a forum and, as importantly, gives people a chance to listen to other systems and put theirs in context.

Now all I need to do is find someone with an EAR912 in their system I can listen to!

I was in Guildford Audio last weekend picking up a pair of speakers. Trevor has a regular Aladdin’s cave, therein he has an EAR912 and a pair of 509 monoblocks! These hidden in a small copse of Wilson Audio speakers.

M

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Could be - though I possibly preferred my NAT03 overall with the 252 - but then perhaps the NAT03 was not up to the quality of the 552 - which might support my view that the 552 was more fussy with sources. I did enjoy my Dave with my 552 - but funnily enough not so keen with the Mscaler attached

I do think its more to do with room though and balance - but can’t rule out the Chord synergy with my particular tastes for some recordings.

BTW I trust you are well - we haven’t exchanged views for a while on the forum.

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There is also a lot that don’t use a pre amp, be it whatever pre amp.
dCS themselves don’t use a pre amp in there demo room or when they do demo’s.
As they believe in no pre amp sounds best on there kit.
Most like myself only run a pre amp if they have other sources.
Some even have just a pre amp for when they want to play vinyl or tape, and then remove it when just using the dCS.

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Interesting! Did it have the power supply?

indeed - I think it depends on the power amp. If the power amp is expecting a preamplification or impedance controlling stage - then the power amp won’t be working optimally without one.
Naim power amps, and Chord power amps certainly are designed to work optimally with a preamp stage of some description.

I remember driving my 250 power amp without a preamp to hear what it sounded like - it was awful :slight_smile:
Put the NAC back in and we were back to beautiful audio again.

There was an adage - you don’t hear so much about now - on this forum that said the Naim NAC is the heart of a Naim system and brings along the rest of the system with it. I do sympathise with that view as it aligns with my experiences.

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Cheers
Glad you enjoyed it

Thats a good point. But as i said the 500dr certainly worked fine without its 552 partner, so good infact it beat it hands down. Now thats probably because the output stage on the dCS apex dacs are so good now.
I have heard a few different amps and speakers running directly from dCS rossini and vivaldi apex dacs. Each obviously sounded different.

But if you match things up correctly for your taste, then the outcome can certainly be stunning. Plus not having to buy say a ÂŁ25k or even a ÂŁ65k pre amp, does meen you can either push the boat out on other gear, or go off on more holidays, etc.