NAC272 + NAP200 + PMC Twenty 23 what next?

For a balanced preamp output see the new naim 332 :smile:

You could be the first to give feedback on use with a non naim amp!!!

Ahh had assumed Naim used DIN o/p & i/p on 272 & NAP 200 because they were balanced. I guess not. The 272 has RCA outputs, any reason not to use those to the Bryston with good quality boggo phono leads? Or is it work getting 4-pin DIN to RCA?

Purely of interest, why does (did) Naim use DIN for this kit then - for the extra power pins or some sonic reason?

worth ….

BTW Iain, those Sonus Faber speakers you mentioned are gorgeous. Dunno what they sound like, but worth it just for the looks!
Focal Sopra 2 seem v popular for performance, but look huge, not pretty to these eyes, though beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

It’s those 3 pin XLRs that are normally used for balanced connections, not DINs.
Naim’s preferred choice of DIN is largely down to the fact that it offers a common ground for both channels, and they recommend that you should use it wherever it’s provided. If you already have suitable RCA cables they will be fine to get you up and running.

Aah ok that makes sense. Past amps have usually had earthing terminals but not the 272, nor the Bryston. Both have 3 pin grounded mains connectors, should that not connect both chassis together to earth?
Leads to another question - Naim signal ground switch set to floating or chassis? (no switch on the Bryston)

Just to be clear, we are talking about the signal ground here, not the safety earth connection.
An all Naim system uses the DIN connections to carry the ground from power amp back to preamp and then to the source (CD player or streamer) so everything works as one.
When you introduce non-Naim components this common grounding arrangement can be broken. That’s not always a problem, and I suspect your power amp will be fine.

If you don’t have a Naim CD player or similar source connected to your 272 it should normally be set to Chassis. I often find that this setting makes little or no audible difference, and no harm will be caused if it’s not set correctly. If in doubt, listen to both settings and use the one you prefer.

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We haven’t yet been for a demo of the Olympica Nova ii and iii, but it might happen at some point now we have 300DR. Dealer rates them highly.

SF do build beautiful, lounge friendly and SWMBO approved loudspeakers.



Bryston procured & hooked up to the 272 with Chord RCAs, warming in nicely. Upgrading to the 272 made a big step in accuracy and transparency, at the expense of brashness in my, er, brash, room, with some source material. Didn’t do any immediate back to back comparisons, but to these ears, the Bryston made another, huge step, any harshness replaced by a much mellower tone, far beefier bottom end, bringing even greater transparency. The 20.23s are singing, really delightful to listen to now for hours even at high volumes on pretty much any material. My rock & pop has the feet drumming and irresistible air guitar, while HWMBO spent all Sunday blasting out her classical stuff ‘like being at a concert’. Another thing noticeable by its absence is in quiet passages or between tracks there is absolutely no noise whatsoever, whereas the Nap 200 had a noticeable 50 Hz background hum.

Managed to find a perfect used 4B3, 13 years warranty, similar cost to a 300 DR, with a black fascia that matches unobtrusively below the Naim kit. What isn’t clear in the photos is its size - double the height of Naim kit, weighing in at a massive 29 kg. You can see and feel where the £££ went. With 300/500 wpc into 8/4 ohms, drives the 20.23s as loud as anyone could want without the remotest sign of stress (the NAP200 always had that edge and got flustered and brasher at high volumes). Reviews say the 4B3 will drive anything, I have no reason to doubt them, designed for professional and audiophile use, definitely future proof! The huge cooling fins were quite warm though after Joan had the joists rattling for hours!

Obviously the 272 and XPS are great kit. The 4B3 works with them seamlessly and the system sounds superb. Joan and I are well chuffed. Glad I went for the 4B3, night and day vs the NAP 200. Can’t recommend it highly enough, love it!

Next ‘what next’ … speakers / or source, or both … but that’s for another day!

Thanks again for all your help and advice.



Dont waste more money on electronics ! It would appear that fundamentally your room accoustics are the problem. We all know what an empty room sounds like in a house … cold bright and echoey ( if thats a word) . I have similar issues with glass in my room but I have bass tritraps in the corners ( which made an Incredible difference and dont really affect the view ) , ceiling panels on first reflection points ( you dont sit looking up at the ceiling ! ) , ornate panels on the rear of the room ( you cant see through the back of your head anyway ) I then have four easily moveable panels on stands which I place behind speakers/on side reflection points, these are deployed for serious listening but can be doubled up/or stored out of the way, at the side or in a different room. It only takes a couple of minutes to move panels into optimum positions. Panels come in a wide range of colours and materials/finishes to suit your decor !

I do wonder how many people who post on this forum understand or have ever considered room accoustics , seems that most people get as far as room size as far as it affects speaker size but get no further as they jump on the electronic upgrade treadmill in pursuit of audio nirvana. Room accoustics are a given and a real barrier to great SQ but it is not in the interests of hifi manufacturers to promote understanding and it is not as sexy/exciting as buying more expensive electronics ! So many very expensive system photos in this forum show no accoustic treatment , but would benefit from it.

I am a retired management consultant and dont work for an accoustics business ……


Thanks, Arcadiabrian!
No plans for further system upgrades. I would upgrade the acoustics, but it’s a living room, not a studio, and from what I see and read, the acoustic mods to make a difference aren’t exactly subtle. I read, for example, that bass traps need to be physically large, set back from the walls by 300 mm and go in all 8 corners to be effective. So it’s hard to imagine much beyond a few carpets, though I’m open to ideas.

Has anybody tried the Psi active bass traps? I read that they are very good, though at £2 grand each, more than one or two gets very expensive. Ideally I think you need one per corner ….

Have you got any photos of your ornate and stand panels and tri bass traps, AB? What make are they? certainly worth a look.

Now if the ‘would’ was replaced by ‘may well’ it would be much more reasonable. So many management consultants simply apply solutions used in one organisation, change the client name in their report, and the powers that be think it’s marvellous. It’s only once they’ve paid the large fee that they realise the solution doesn’t work and they really should have listened to what their own staff were telling them all along.

I’ve heard many top notch systems work perfectly well with no treatment whatsoever. Some can benefit of course, the OP’s may well do, but it’s not a universal panacea.

In the OP’s case, I’d move the speakers to a different wall, so they are not in front of glass. But if it can’t be done, so be it.

You see pictures of treated rooms with panels on the ceiling etc and it looks like an operating theatre. I want my sitting room to look like a nice family room to relax. If you have a dedicated listening room it’s a different matter of course. But for certain, one size doesn’t fit all.


My corner bass traps definitely did not have to be positioned so far away from the wall. I dont have bass traps in every corner ( like many people , doors etc prevent this ) but what I have transformed my bass. My solution does not adress every issue because of a side wall but I installed things incrementally ( according to funds available ) and was able to monitor and recognise the benefits. I used GIK who have lots of explanatory videos on their website , sent them photos of my room and they recommended possible treatments explaining the benefits different items would bring. My solutions were aimed at addressing bass and first reflection points issues. I do move/turn the armchair into the room for serious listening :joy:


Why have you got a chair plonked between speakers? Or do you listen Jimmy Hughes style? :thinking::wink:

At least you’ve levelled it though…:grin:

Quite happy with your edit , just a shame you felt the need to attack my suggestions by slagging off my profession which I only mentioned to show I am not linked to the hifi industry. I am talking about my positive experience with acoustic treatment. Perhaps you can share your profession/job with me.

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Explained chair in my post ?

I had a senior finance role in local government, and worked with many consultants. Some were good, some less so. Some really got under the skin of the organisation. Some submitted a bland one size fits all solution. Some even submitted reports without changing the client name from their previous commission.

In my many years of hifi ownership I’ve always had a good carpet with top notch underlay. Hard floors can be very reflective and maybe that’s a reason you’ve felt the need to use so many traps and panels.

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Oh dear ! I do have a large rug which doesn’t show on the photos , thanks for making me aware of the impact of hard floors :roll_eyes:

Clearly you know it all.

Oh dear !