NAC272 + NAP200 + PMC Twenty 23 what next?

You may have already made up your mind Alan but if I were you I would definitely go for a 250DR over the XPSDR. It will give you so much more in every way compared to the 200, I know because my current system is just the 272/XPSDR/250DR. But the decision is of course yours.

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Ok so I’m looking at a 250 DR to swap out the NAP 200. Got that! And a rug, from the loft! Cheap upgrade!

And a pair of PMC Fact 12s. So question - a fit with an oakey bright room? And does a 250 DR have the necessary oomph to drive them? Sensitivity 94 dbA/W (Fact 12) vs 97 dBA/W (20.23). I don’t normally listen above 90 dBA, should be plenty power in hand if the amp has the control…

For Fact 12s, you are looking at a 300 and ideally a 500. It’s way too much speaker for a 272 based system.

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Before I spent £17k on speakers I’d be wanting to hear them in situ with the end game amplification.

Having owned a 272/XPSDR I’d say your source/pre doesn’t justify that sort of speaker spend.

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It doesn’t surprise me. Sonus Faber loves power. If not enough power they generally sound uninvolving and laid back.

Absolutely. They’re only £3K speakers but it has taken a 300DR to hear them at their full potential.

On the end of a 300DR they excel in the midrange, have a pin sharp treble and a fast and articulate bass.

We honestly thought when we upgraded from 272/250DR to 252/300DR that we would have to change speakers, but whilst we certainly could we by no means must.

System balance is the key word Alan. Agree with other comments, Fact 12 woul be a overkill in a 272 system.

An offensive concept I guess, a Porsche driven by a Golf 2.0 L turbo. I just wondered if the Fact 12 might have a better balance, the 20.23s are very forward, and there may be an attractive deal on offer, including the 250 DR so highly rated.

It’s your ears and your cash, but I would be very surprised if you decided that Fact 12s were ideal or a good way to spend that sort of money. I’d suggest trying upgrades of everything else before even considering that sort of speaker.

A rug is well worth trying and free.

If you can try some room treatment without creating domestic disharmony, that would probably be step 2.

A 250 is considerably better than a 200, and a 300DR is another step up in grip imho - it displaced my 250, and I never thought that would happen. However, even with s/h bargains making a 300 great value right now, a 300 might well show up a 272.

A 272 is great VFM, as many here attest, but it can be beaten. I suspect that NDX2, 555PS, 252, SCDR, 300DR (most or all second-hand) plus some room treatment or a full DSP work up could all be had for less than the cost of upgrading to Fact 12s, and I would expect the results to be a lot more satisfactory.

Others may disagree, but please do look/ listen carefully before spending that sort of money.

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For what it’s worth I currently run PMC twenty 26’s with a similar system or reasonably close and they are a smoother option than the twenty5 i range, mine can be a little edgy but after a couple of hour into a listening session they can sound superb, track dependent of course.
Looking at your room l’m not surprised the sound you get is very lively so I would definitely tread carefully with your upgrade route.
What ever you decide I hope it works out well.

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Thanks all, will stick with 20.23s, carpet then 250 DR for now.
Only one local dealer here, doesn’t stock PMCs, which I do like. I bought the 20.23s after auditioning with my Unitlite & NAP 200 on a trip to London. Dealer (Billy Vee) said better speakers (I had some big Kefs at the time) took a lot of driving to get the best from them, so what y’all say makes sense.

Dealer who supplied the XPS DR said be wary of the 25i series, more forward than 20 series. Used 20.26 may be a good upgrade in due course, but will have to be on spec, no way to demo up her in NW Scotland. Same tweeter as 20.20, bigger woofer and a mid-driver in a much bigger cabinet, so would have to enrol my wife …

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Visual difference between the twenty 23 and the 26’s is subtle, sure you could get away with it, if you bought the same finish your other half may not even notice you changed them, always better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission :wink:

@Chestermana My fallible recollection from having a 272/200 combination with PMC FB1+ was that adding the XPS cleaned up the treble a lot with a loss of treble emphasis. The bass was more in your face with the XPS than before the XPS was added. I would let things settle in for a few weeks before spending more money because what you think needs improving now may change over time. But, glad to hear that the system is sounding good.

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Apart from the Twenty 26 being nearly twice the physical volume!

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Point taken but both have a narrow facia, the twenty26’s I think are 5-6” taller and just over an inch wider so the balance is similar, so the visual appearance is similar is the point I was trying to make.

I think using a winking emoji would’ve been a good idea. :slight_smile:

We had Twenty.24 speakers on demo before we had a demo of the 23s and bought them. The 24s were MUCH bigger once in the room.

Fact 12 is a lovely speaker, and from straight in front so skinny it is almost invisible - show her only the straight in front pics?!

All round better than the entire TwentyX range, especially the bass - though of course at a cost (but available secondhand at quite a massive drop compared to new prices). As for amp, if future upgrading is potentially on the cards all that matters is whether the combination with your present amp sounds good: you will know that a better amp some time in the future will make them sing even better. If this is end of road you need to consider how balanced it all sounds.

Re room, omething absorbent or diffusing at the side wall first reflection points is likely to be beneficial - and needn’t be very large.

Great points - Fact 12s are narrow, 6.5”, vs 20.23s 6” wide, 8” taller 43.7” vs 36.1”, and 3.5” deeper. The narrowness suiting the room is a big point, it is a compromise, my wife has to live with them in a multi use room (in their favour, she does love classical and Genesis so if they sound great big plus!) They are taller but about level with the telly, and the ceilings are high. As you say a big saving SH? Whereas the 20.26s are much wider, chunkier. And I’m up for a beefy amp if warranted.

So you never know …

In my view you’d be absolutely potty to get Fact 12s with a 272/XPS. It’s just not good enough, no matter what power amp you use. Get a 250 for your 23s, you’ll have a nicely balanced setup and I suspect you’ll be quite happy. If you get demanding speakers they must be fed, which is fine if you have the wherewithal. Should you get the Facts, don’t be surprised when you are back here and posting that something’s not quite right.

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I have been a Naim owner for 30yrs, have had loads of kit over the years, up the ladder and down again. Currently a 272/200 (Class A serviced) with XPS.

I was brought up on the Naim philosophy ‘opening the window lets in more fresh air, but also more dust n dirt’ i.e. upgrading downstream first (250 before XPS) will do positive stuff, but also exposes any weaknesses further upstream (bare 272).

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