Naca5

You mind to picture your cable, I really need solutions for folding , I want to see how dose it look

Yeah, but it’s neater and easier to store with well-done zigzags anyway. Although, some member(s?) recently wrote they found degraded SQ when zigzagged compared to just leaving it long with one generous return loop. Then again, is there anything in the world that someone didn’t find SQ degradation for? :wink: Still, I’m glad that I don’t have to do either; peace of mind

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My system has folded speaker cable on one channel only & that is housed under the designed for the purpose space under my audio rack, its not that easy to access.
Sorry but I don’t have a picture of the cable to show you, maybe I will take one next time I have a deep clean.

It’s just simple Velcro tape instead of tie wraps (sometimes called zip wraps)
You can buy Velcro tape in all sizes & colours from DIY stores & www stores
It comes in a roll, you just cut off what you need & warp it around the cable
This photo is from Amazon

I have a 10 mtr. extension lead that is coiled when wound in its casing. The case itself says ‘always fully unwind entire cable before using to avoid inductance loops’.

I have therefore always done this despite having absolutely no idea what an ‘inductance loop’ is.

All I can tell you is that in over 30 years of use my lawn mower & electric drill have yet to explode so I will continue to follow the instructions!

On a serious note I have always believed an inductance loop has something to do with generating excess heat but I can’t remember where I got this idea from.

I have two, four metre lengths of NACA5 connecting my Nova to speakers. The length to the furthest speaker is flat, fully unwound, along a skirting board. The other speaker is much closer to the Nova & the excess cable is folded & secured with cable ties in the same manor as in the @Mike-B photo.

I think that isn’t about inductance loops, because at 50 (or 60) Hz the inductance isn’t going to be significant in heat generation terms. The reason for pulling it all the way out is that otherwise the inner coils will get hot, as there is no air cooling like with the outside coils.

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Coiling any current-carrying wire into a loop will make it into a solenoid (electromagnet) which will have a non-zero inductance that, in the case of hifi cable, the manufacturer would not have intended. Having it in a ‘zig-zag’ configuration avoids this, so the advice to avoid coiling excess wire makes perfect physics sense and would be my first and only guess as to why people have heard sonic improvements when going from coiled to zigzag.

Like @davidhendon, I doubt extra inductance would have significant negative performance or safety implications for lawnmowers and the like under normal conditions, but that’s a long way from saying it would have no effect on any device ever.

Mark

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Is that NACA5? If it is, I can’t imagine getting the cable into that shape since it’s so stiff with the fear they might break or snap…

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I’ve had horrible experience with zigzag picking up AM radio.

Although coiling isn’t Naim’s recommendation, it’s problems are negligable, if any, on speaker cables. Whereas zigzag forms an efficient antenna.

My dealer confirmed this was so common, that I’m not sure why Naim still recommend it.

Cue: every person who uses zigzag and personally not had a problem telling me I’m wrong.

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I recently created a thread detailing my experience with the zig zag method. I tried it and was very happy with how neat it looked but then sat down to listen and found it to noticeably reduce lower mids/ upper bass in my system. I recreated it by undoing the zig zags and listening and then zip tying into zig zags again. I am absolutely convinced that this was real as my cognitive bias expected no change at all and if anything i would have wanted to prefer it neat and tidy. I suggest anyone with zig zags try it without, just to see if it has an affect in their setup. I have no idea how or why this happened nor do i wish to take part in a big lengthy discussion on why i am wrong. Just adding my experience. This definitely changed something in my setup for the worst. It is now laid out in a big sweeping curve where it doubles back on itself.

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OK, thanks, I understand, so what is the length that you folded , is it tight as the picture you found in the net

Wow this thread I started really has some very interesting views on cable , it is obvious from reading that the longer the cable length you can manage to use within 20m the better but unless you have a 40x40m room your gonna run into problems with interference if your cable isn’t lay correctly, or away from power cables etc it would be interesting to see what NAIM actually do in test scenarios and the use of cable and length in listening rooms and the size of listening area . Everybody seems to have had slightly different ideas on cable coiling /zigzag and so on and from what I can read between the lines is it all negatively affects sound quality . Maybe just leaving excess cable randomly lay down like spagetti is best if it can’t be fully unwound !!! Sound daft I know but every day I’ve read through comments and there is no CORRECT use of excess cable unless you have an extremely large listening room for straight runs . I think this is where NAIM should step in for some clarity ???
Great input from everybody , really interesting .

I have a pair of 5 meter runs of Naca5. For the speaker nearer my Nait, I did not go with the zigzag Naim way. This is what I did on the side with the excess cable.

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I have Chord Odyssey, but NACA5 will bend & the pic I used is NACA5

My speaker cable is Chord Odyssey, it’s 5.5m per channel & I have aprx 4m of that folded into a ‘square’ shape that is aprx 40 x 30cm.

Incidentally for the person who was concerned that if you bend NACA5 too sharply, it might crack or break, there really is no need to worry about that at all. It is very stiff but it’s also tough and flexible so you can do what you like. A hair dryer can be used to warm up the plastic where you want to bend it and that will make it a lot easier to bend.

Best

David

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I have never Zigged or Zagged - or Coiled, with my Naim NAC-A4 cables. The excess length just runs ‘past’ the speaker, round a not too tight Hair Pin bend then back to the speaker.

It was pure luck and good guess work that caused me to buy two 8 metre runs of A4 when in first came out. These have proved to be sonically very satisfactory - and long enough in I think 5 different rooms - and houses… :slightly_smiling_face:

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Bingo! Yes that silly folding even looks like an antenna. I’m not going to say what’s best with Naca5 since I’ve never used it. The whole inductance thing is kind of a throw back to the old school days even Naca5 is an old school design. Back in the early years there really wasn’t an audio cable industry as we know it and because of the Naim’s output design Naim had to design their own wire. Actually it’s pretty ingenious.

Fast forward to the 21st century and Naim’s SOTA amps are mono’s with AFAIK no need for long NACA 5

Most super systems using big mono amps will have the amps close to the individual speakers and use short speaker cables and long Balanced interconnects from the preamp. There are lots of sound reasons to do it this way.

This is how it was done in the factory where there was excess cable. I do a similar thing but with tighter curves so i can keep it behind the racks. I have the kit placed behind me with the speakers on the opposite wall, so the right speaker uses most all of the length of NACA5, whereas the left requires that the excess is looped beyond the racks. It’s one of the other advantages of having three low-ish stacks of Fraim - perfect for hiding the cable behind.

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Bear in mind that there were plenty of sound reasons for doing the opposite; i.e short interconnects and long speaker cables, which was why Naim did things this way. Single ended i/cs have issues and unacceptable losses when run over long lengths. Long speaker cabling made much more sense as it also could provide the needed extra inductance on the amp output, thus negating the need for additional inductance on the amp itself resulting in better sound.

Fully balanced operation does allow you to use longer interconnects. Whether there are overall advantages here or not I will leave to the audio engineers to discuss, but it is notable that Naim have gone this way with the Statement.

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Which way?