Naim Dac

Hi-Fi Corner
1

I have been a long term watcher but have not contributed much as I can get most answers I need just from keeping in touch with what others are up to.

Here is a question that has probably been answered a hundred times but not with nuance of the latest streamer software.

I have a NDSXS 2 which acts as a streamer only, in to a Naim Dac. I was very happy being able to play a wide range of music with the 3.8 software. My son was also enjoying his slightly different tastes. In short the music was wonderful.

This is not the case now. He has stopped listening and I am very frustrated. The music is harsh and the sibilance on female voices especially is soul destroying. I know some say that the differences are not large and I suppose they are not large but they are large enough to take all the enjoyment away. No longer do I listen for hours at a time.

Now to the real point of the discussion, and, that is the addition of a 555 DR power supply to the Dac. Will the additional power make the Dac more “revealing” and add to the harshness or will I get an improvement in detail and a clearer as opposed to harsher presentation?

I know the best answer is to go and have a listen but I cannot. The power supply is in England and I am in Australia.

The system is a 252 driving 135’s in to old but good condition Linn Isobariks.

I look forward to hearing from those who have added a Power supply to the Dac, and those who have systems that concentrate on the drive and feeling of their music rather than the detail. I can now hear many things I could not before. There is a lot of detail, but the treble especially is not enjoyable, and I am almost sure that there is nothing wrong, it is simply the additional little bit of harshness with the new software that is causing our problems, hence the option of improving the Dac is a potential solution.

What do you think? Will the power supply help or just make the current situation more detailed?

1 Like
2

For clarification, do you have an NDS with XPS2 power supply or ND5XS2 ?

I have a Naim-Core/ND5XS2/DC1/nDAC/PS555DR all running up to date firmware and am very happy with female voices.

My ND5XS2 is used solely as a streamer-only, into my nDAC.

Some of my female vocals listening from my Naim Core is to Jacintha, Laura Fygi, Ana Caram, Alison Krauss, Shelly, Amy Winehouse, Jheena Lodwick, Lady Gaga, Diana Krall, Rebecca Pidgeon, Shelly, Bonnie Kolac. All have absolutely no harshness from the Core into ND5XS2 via UPnP ethernet, through a Cisco C2960G.

Listening to Internet Radio in the ND5XS2 to ALR jazz, and Jazz Groove, is beautifully musical too.

I found that adding the PS555DR to my nDAC was an amazing transformation to the musical enjoyment of my system which has been recapped twice, and my speakers recently tested to ensure the high frequency is still there.(one of my friends is a recording engineer who has the measuring tools).

Once I heard the PS555DR on my nDAC, I could not go without it, As the musical enjoyment is so delightful, it was equivalent to upgrading every single component in the audio chain. Ironically it’s the most significant box in my system for musical enjoyment.

I too am in Oz, and know how difficult it is to get near a PS555DR unless your dealer already has one on the floor. I bought mine blindly when I only had a CORE/nDAC, as I had a firm understanding that throughout the Naim heirarchy, the “power supply upgrade” is fundamental to achieving the best from Naim boxes capable of taking an external power supply.

I found there are a few fundamental connectivity requirements to get my system sounding optimally.

  1. use the Naim DC1 bnc-bnc digital cable
  2. use the Naim lavender din-din cable from nDAC to NAC
  3. use at least 5m NACA5 speaker cable (mine has the nickel Naim Ovator connectors on both ends)
  4. adding a Cisco C2960G ethernet switch to the ND5XS2 and Core was important.
2 Likes
3

Thank you so much for the detailed reply. The streamer is an nd5xs2 which is connected to the dac. I only use it as a streamer.

1 Like
4

There are quite a few of us who use the ND5XS2 as a streamer to an external DAC.

I’ve never had any issues with female voices. Everything sounds wonderful to me. I run my ND5xs2/nDAC combo “only” with a XPSDr. @Dugby’s advice is very sound. I use 3 out of 4 of the items he has listed. The change for me is I have a HiLine replacing the Naim Lavender. My experience is don’t overlook your Network setup. I’ve found plenty of gain in SQ by paying attention to my Network setup and power(dedicated circuit if possible).

4 Likes
5

Hi Marcus, I recall you are in the US ?

I just bought a Naim cable from TMRAudio in Colorado and also noticed they have a pre-loved PS555DR for an interesting price…. (not sure if you are looking ?)

regards from OZ

1 Like
6

Yes Sir, I’m in the States. I really shouldn’t look but I will. :slight_smile:

7

KnamDroof

As you may have seen, there are looong threads about “firmware harshness” and some very helpful advice from various diligent tweakers. There is a dynamic thread with adjusting Firmware and Naim App settings to ND555/NDX2/ND5XS2 devices, which I found difficult to keep track of.

So I tried to diligently keep my own notes from that thread. From my summary notes up to 31/Dec/2025, I documented the following for my ND5XS2

Options to set to “on”

Spotify input enabled

Multiroom Client (default)

Internet Radio (default)

Option to set “off”

Server Mode

Airplay

Bluetooth

Digital 1, 2, 3, 4

Qobuz

Tidal

Remote Mobile detect

Favorites

Chromecast

Front USB data only

Rear USB Charge only

Multiroom Master

HDMI

Stay Connected

Additionally hope you could test a CD player digital out into the nDAC. Then move the CD player digital out to the ND5XS2. This may be a useful test to see if the harshness moves with the digital connection.

Finally as we probably don’t have the same music files, maybe if you could listen to ALR Jazz in the ND5XS2 Internet Radio to ascertain if harness occurs there.

8

This does not make sense to me. For as far as I know, people using an external DAC were not affected by the SQ changes caused by 3.10 and 3.11 firmware updates.

1 Like
9

I recommend adding the power supply. Like all NAIM kit (mine’s OC), taking the power supply offboard is always a step up in SQ. Indeed, it’s designed that way and as I understand it, is a design fundamental.

1 Like
10

On the subject of separate off-board power supplies, the DAC allows you to use the earlier Olive CDPS (later version with appropriate Burndy) or Olive XPS. With these now available for a bargain price, this can be a very cost-effective upgrade.

8 Likes
11

The effect was perhaps more limited, but still audible, with our NDX2 as transport.

3.10 sounded splashy and became fatiguing. 3.11 is not exactly the same sound signature as we recall from our original upgrade (3.8), but it has its own strengths.

However, we also have nDAC/555PSDR and whilst there are now a small number of recordings which sound slightly bright, we have no general issues and female voices are certainly not sibilant (we listen to a lot of female vocal stuff).

This is an interesting point. We run our Sky Q audio (toslink) through NDX2 rather than straight into nDAC. We find the NDX2 adds something here, and we prefer this setup.

1 Like
14

If I didn’t get it wrong, did your son setup the 555DR for the system in England while you are in Australia?

I’m think if it’s the Burndy/cable dressing thing, as I witnessed an obvious loss of low ends i.e. harsh highs/sibilance in mids as the Burndy of my cd player accidentally fell on another Burndy of the preamp while the music was playing. When I have my ND5XS2/NDac/XPS2 the SQ also suffered due to bad dressing of Burndy.

Your son may not know all these Naim tricks and you may ask him to try again.

Also he should check if all the locking rings are unlocked and push backward to the screw or the rings will audibly ‘ring’, and added unwanted harshness to the sound.

1 Like
15

If it was great and now you and your son don’t like the sound, something is wrong! I would try to figure that out first!

Have you the earth switches correctly set?

The nDAC is sensitive to vibrations. Are cables touching something?

Are all the mains plugs, tight?

Paul

1 Like
16

Thank you. I was a bit hesitant to ask the forum but I am getting many very helpfull replies. I have also been watching the other thread on the firmware and will check on the list but I know most settings are as per the current thinking.

In respect of the cd comparison we had a session with Eric Clapton’s live album. Playing the cd player (naim cd) digital out to the dac and comparing it to the streamer version. It is very easy to change as both can be connected at once, and changed by the input button on the dac, although the cables from cd to dac and streamer to dac are different. We could always tell the harsh and sibilant version. The streamer has more detail and more information but the cd is much more enjoyable, and alive, the cymbols and that famous tambourine are quite different. It was an interesting experiment and we were quite surprised how easy it was to tell which was playing even when we did not know which was playing.

The cables between the various boxes would not pass a cable dressing police examination. The mains cabling is separate and 15 Amp on a separate line which is very difficult to do in Australia so the system installation is quite highly developed, in its own way.

I think the point that some are missing is the comparison prior to and after the software upgrade. That is not the subject of the post, otherwise I would have put the post in the streamer section. The differences are real and substantial to the enjoyment, although in many ways quite subtle. The system is alive, it breathes, and the sound of the isobariks and the 135’s is truly amazing. Version 3.8 on the original streamer had us all, as well as any visitors captivated how almost anything was being portrayed. It was better than the cd player. My wife has commented, after the upgrade from outside the room at the other end of the house that something I am playing sounds terrible. That would never have occured with version 3.8. The only thing that changed was the streamer. And incidently the results were the same with two streamers as we were issued with a second new one after the first one failed. I could say more, including how extra volume now produces more harshness as well as extra volume whereas before just louder.

The real question is in relation to what the extra power supply will achieve, and I cannot listen before I buy it. We are sort of stuck with the current sound unless the software changes or we change the streamer. The power supply will give us more - but more of what? More bass - perhaps more definition to the bass - easier to hear how the drum is struck etc. Will it give us more definition to the voices? Will the dreaded “esses” get even more definition and last even longer? My hope is just more definition and less sibilance but I do not know.

Changing the streamer is an option and depending on the next software change may be a real option, but that introduces a whole new list of challenges, not to mention expense.

17

To answer your question - definately YES, a PS555DR will be a sublime enhancement to how the nDAC will sound. You’ll find that with your CD digitally attached to the nDAC.

But the harshness / sibilance issue I suspect is a different technical situation. Your combination of 252/135/Briks should be delightful with the ND5XS2/nDAC even at the current firmware level.

On current firmware, my ND5XS2 (naked, without nDAC/PS555DR) sounds good into my 72/HC/250, there is neither harshness nor sibilance with female vocals.

As your CD into the nDAC sounds good, it seems something is poorly affecting the ND5XS2.

Have you tried a “factory reset” on the ND5XS2 ?, you may also try temporarily relocating it just to ascertain if there is some EMF affecting it.

The final point which a couple of us have hinted - very careful attention to the ethernet connectivity has a significant influence.

I spent 35 years in corporate networking and was surprised to learn with “music over ethernet streaming” could be so significantly affected by electrical noise in the electrical media transporting the digital stream. Some here use the English Electric 8switch (EE8), whilst I chose the less expensive Cisco C2960G-8TC.

So if you haven’t already, you may wish to try inserting an “earthed” ethernet switch between the ND5XS2 and the router.

1 Like
18

Sorry if I missed this detail, but have you tried an altogether different source to rule out an issue elsewhere? How old are the tweeters? Have they ever been replaced?

1 Like
19

Thank you all for all the sugestions. Fate has supplied a short term solution. We have to go away for several weeks at least, to help out while we become grand parents again.

In the meantime, we can wait till new software arrives and we attend to putting some real attention to the internet connection. After all, the room has been specially built, the electrical installation is very “sophisticated” and a great deal of time and quite a few dollars as well, has been spent on equipment over the years.

20

Hi @KnamDroof a lot has already been said, so I’ll just add a few minor comments.

  • I opted for a recapped Olive XPS on the NDac. It brings a clear improvement with more silence, a clearer sound stage and more contour in the bass. I bought it from a specialist dealer in Hamburg (1.2k euros with a 2-year warranty). I could also have got a recapped PS555 (non-DR) there. But 4.5 k euros seemed too much to invest in an NDac that is 15 years old. With a PS555, you are sure to get the best. If you buy it second-hand, recapping is important. Although it is possible to do this retrospectively (after 10-15 years), but it is time-consuming and expensive.
  • Firmware differences have made rather minor differences for me. I think that separate streamer/DAC combinations offer an advantage here.
  • Switching from the Neotech NEVD-1001 silver BNC digital cable to Naim DC1 (between ND5XS2 and NDac) improved the musicality.
  • The same applies to the change from Audioquest Vodka to Ansuz A2 Ethernet cable.
  • I suspect that in your case, the network plays a decisive role – small improvements add up to a big step forward here: I replaced the cheap standard power supply on the router with an iFi iPower Elite. I use a Cisco 3560 (with IGMP snooping) for the home network and also a Silent Angel Bonn N8 (similar to EE8) with a Forester F1 power supply in front of the ND5XS2. I bought most of the network components second-hand, so the financial investment is not very high. Now, streaming (via Qobuz) sounds at least as good as the same CD recording via Audiolab 6000 CD transport into the NDac. Neither option sounds harsh in my system.
2 Likes
21

The best DAC I’ve ever owned was an Audio Note 1.1 Signature.. I think that’s right or something like that!

I did own a Naim DAC in the past and it was pretty good but no match for the AN

22

I got the just released Gustard R26II R2R Ladder DAC last Friday. It arrived ice cold and after a slow warm up I’ve had it playing continuously for the last 5 days. Today I did a very brief head to head with my nDAC. The nDAC has less distortion and a lower output (to my ear). The Gustard has great texture and body. Details have excellent separation. It seems more analog, like the difference between vinyl and digital. I’m happy with it. The nDAC held it’s head high in the shoot out and is a good performer. I like the number of inputs it has, especially the two BNC’s but the Gustard has AES & I2S, which has prompted me order a new HDMI de-embedder to get DSD into it from SACD’s. I like the ladder DAC sound and if the R26II proves to be reliable I could see upgrading to it’s big brother, the R30 someday.

1 Like