Sorry, it was Oreas. My mistake.
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Yes, I found Sorbothane had too much deadening. Itās designed for industrial applications where it works very well.
Similar to the Linn Selekt DSM; Edition hub, it has high-mass stainless-steel feet with impressed āOā ring aid decoupling.
DGā¦
I found that there was a natural limit to the amount of tightening thatās possible because at a certain point the aluminium spacers will start biting into the wood of the shelves and Iād have to assume that this would clearly be going too far with the muscleā¦ YMMV
I found exactly the same. It was very difficult therefore to know just how tight things should really be. Linn used to say to tighten things until they felt like they wouldnāt turn any further and then give them an extra quarter turn. Did that when I had Fraim and as you say it was biting into the wood. Tightening things to the point where they start to deform canāt be desirable/sensible.
One of the reasons I moved away from Fraim is that despite the excellent performance, which is not in doubt, I felt that the whole thing was just too complex and finicky in terms of how important it was to get everything ājust soā to ensure correct performance. Thereās no way I was going to re-build that very six months or whatever - lifeās too short and Iāve got better things to do.
I now use a Quadraspire SVT rack which is very simple and quick to assemble. No possibility of deforming any wood by over-tightening as all the interfaces are metal-metal. (the bamboo shelves have metal inserts to accept the uprights). Iāve no idea how it compares to Fraim sound-wise and my kit is no longer Naim anyway. But it sounds great and for my money looks a lot neater and less messy than Fraim.
However, as to whether Fraim is āworth itā I would have to say absolutely yes in all respects. Were I to return to Naim I would want Fraim despite my misgivings.
Tried it under my Lindemann Bridge with largely the same result
Oh. Better remove my soft feet under it then 
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Yes,soft feets never work with Naim,in my experience.
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Well I was advised by my dealer when tightening you should absolutely not over tighten as you ruin the performance. As such you should use the supplied tools as that alloy is quite a soft and will start to bend if you over tighten. Indeed this is what Iāve doneā¦ and listening to my Nait50, DAVE and NDX2 all on my full fat Fraim it all sounds delightful to meā¦ and no I donāt rebuild every 12 months or whateverā¦
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I tighten my Fraim like I tighten bike parts: snug, but not too tight. OK, with Fraim, maybe just a tad more snug.
It would be nice if Naim gave some guidance in terms of torque specs. Then Iād have an idea of proper tightness (and I have torque wrenches). Iāll bet 6-9nm is all thatās necessary for any of it, certainly not more than 8-12nm.
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Iām surprised Naim havenāt published any torque settings for the Fraim. It would be the one item where i think that would be requiredā¦ For all that though, iāve only ever assembled my Fraim once in the three & half years iāve had it (stripped the system down many times inbetween) and it has never come loose or needed adjusting in any way, and no i havenāt over tightened anything and only used the supplied spanner & tommy bar. It has all been rather fuss-free and the system has always sounded excellent.
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During my visit to Naim HQ last week I mentioned to Jason Gould how tight is tight, Jason said the Fraim legs need to indent the underneath of the level.
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Iām surprised Naim havenāt published any torque settings for the Fraim.
If Naim were go on to say 14Nm you can bet users will say they get better results with 13Nm.
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Two stands that work really well: Fraim (I have had it for 21 years) and Mana (still have). Anything else, donāt bother. If you have furniture, Fraim glass on the Fraim ball bearings is good. And racks between speakers does not work.
I have found you can over-tighten Fraim. I have ārescuedā one system in past from a shelf that was over-tightened and loosening it and just re-tightening it using the bar Naim provide by hand tightly without straining at it brought back the missing perfomance.
It may be some prefer the sound with it tighter but I hear under-tightened as losing resolution, blurring musical details and timing - and over-tightening introduces a shrill HF resonance that loses detail and makes for a stridant and lifeless effect as I hear it.
Since it is a mechanical filter with the wood acting as the needed damping you will always have under-damped, over-damped and critical damping possibilities as with all filters, so I think I just like the critical damped position. It is easy to hear as you get a full āwith-itā presentation and the system just sounds happy.
But people may have preferences otherwise and it may also by system-dependant to some extent.
DB.
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The question begs here that if Naim think it should be āvery tightā (i.e. someway ahead of nip-tight and a tad more), why do they only supply a puny soft-metal tommy bar, which can deform very easily?
Could you please explain as to why? Rack between speakers seems to be the most common configuration.
Iām guessing totally, but this thread hints a bit that the choice of supplied tools naturally limits the torque an average owner would apply when assembling
Then thereās this anecdote
which suggests quite some force should be applied.
Not quite sure why Naim would be reluctant to quote a torque figure, I wonder if theyāve ever been asked!?
Hello Sean basically sounds bounce off the edges of the rack and arrive at different times to your ears. What you want is the direct sound, side walls reflect sound and it arrives a bit later than the main signal which is also a problem, but TVs racks etc is a no no. If it canāt be helped at least position it behind the front baffle of the speakers.
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I agree with you as far as Mana goes Devraj. The Fraim was based on the success of Mana, but Mana achieved excellent sound quality from Naim equipment at much less cost than the Fraim. A few years ago I managed to get steel replacement spikes for my two Mana supports, made a significant improvement to the sound. I donāt know if the Fraim was the first to use soft steel to improve the sound of the support or Mana.
Mana also has a smaller footprint, which makes it bit more flexible for placement purposes, which is helpful in my set up, while it does require a bit of careful setting up, but not that difficult. Interestingly they do not recommend the spike screws to be as tight as possible. Anyway Mana no longer sell their supports so can only be found secondhand. I wonder if Mana would have been much more popular if they had been willing to sell through dealers instead of keeping costs down for users by only selling direct? Best wishes Amer
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