I lived with an ND5 XS 2 > XS 2 system for awhile and it was wonderful, I also lived with a NDX > SN 2 then NDX 2 > SN 2 for awhile and those combinations were sublime. You are right about the upgrade itch that can come into play. At this point in time I do not envision moving to a SN 3 with the SN 2 only being a couple years old and I do not intend to add a TT.
My goal is not to go above a four box system so eventually I may add the HiCap DR to the SN 2 and that will be it. So currently and for the retirement years ahead I hope to keep it as simple as this, having added the XPS DR this past September.
For what it’s worth, spent a fair amount of time listening to both the ND5 XS2 and the NDX2. While the NDX2 was an improvement over ND5 XS2, in my view it was an incremental, albeit noticeable improvement, over the “entry level” model, akin to going to a 192/24 version from 96/24 version of a high quality recording. Part of my thinking in opting for the ND5 XS2 was that, unlike amplification, streamers are a comparatively new technology and that whatever I bought was more likely to be superseded by a materially better model in the future. (I also view the display on the NDX2 was a distraction.). I have had my ND5 XS2 for a year and have no regrets.
All these feaures are provided by the ND5 XS 2 as well and the streaming platform of the ND5 XS 2 and of the NDX 2 are the same, to the best of my knowledge.
The DAC of the NDX 2 is slightly better than the DAC of the ND5 XS 2 and they both are at most as good as the DAC of the old nDAC.
Considering that one can buy a second hand nDAC for about 1/6 of the price of an NDX 2 (and front-end it with a more flexible and future proof streaming platform for negligible money) the added value of the ND5 XS 2 and of the NDX 2 seems rather modest to me.
The NDX 2 is still a nice device but, given what one gets for the money, its relatively unpolished software and recurrent display freezing problems, I would opt for a less pretentious and more inconspicuous ND5 XS 2. Just my two cents, of course.
If you are looking for a long term solution then you should probably focus on a DAC without integrated streaming platform or on a DAC with upgradeable streaming platform.
I like the approach followed Primare, they have recently released a small transport (NP5 Prisma) that can effectively be used to bring Airplay 2, Chromecast, Roon, etc. to their legacy DACs.
Many Naim users are very happy with Chord DACs. These can be very easily front-ended with relatively inexpensive streaming platforms.
Perhaps the ND5 XS 2, NDX 2 and ND555 will turn out to be far more flexible and more adaptable than the previous generation of Naim streamers. But they are also intended to be transitional products (according to the ND555 white paper) and the last to use the PCM1704 chip.
From this perspective and if you restrict your choice to ND5 XS 2 and NDX 2, the ND5 XS 2 seems the most natural choice if you contemplate upgrading in 3-5 years and the NDX 2 seems the most natural choice if you decide that you will not upgrade.
I’m going through the upgrade process at the moment and chose the NDX2 as it sounded to me to be so much better than the ND5 XS2.
I’ve also added the XPS DR as it took the NDX2 to another significant level.
I think when upgrading it pays long term to wait till you can afford to go fully to the next level for any part of your system.
It’s better to wait rather than compromise.
I agree I’d go for ND5 XS 2 as there is the option of adding a DAC such as Chord Hugo TT2 later if you wanted. At Naim’s comparative demo, I didn’t think the NDX2 was significantly better than ND5 XS 2, that’s probably the wrong way to say it as I’m trying to say ND5 XS 2 was very very good.
Of course, you have to listen yourself to really know which you prefer. @Analogmusic recommends going for NDX2 so I would certainly advise an audition. I’d ignore subjective reviews as you’ll be able to judge for yourself. Objectively the PCM1704 DAC in the NDX2 cannot achieve the dynamic range or extremely low distortion of the best modern DACs from Chord, AK and ESS, but this may not matter only you can decide if it does in the context of your own system.
What’s the reason with Naim choosing on paper less good DAC chipsets. I mean for the price they for sure can fit a better one (specs) so must be due to listening tests then because a Chord and other normally measure better than Naim.
yes I would agree with you that ND5XS 2 is the right streamer if adding a Chord DAC later on.
But not all will do this, some people like the Naim streamers as is.
If the intention is to stay with all Naim sources, then well for long term, the NDX2 allows an upgrade, which the ND5XS 2 does not
are you sure that the NDX2 does have a PCM 1704?
According to Naim it has The Burr-Brown® PCM1792A, which is not a R2R chip like the 1704, it is an advanced Delta-sigma DAC…
I would add that while a Chord DAC is a very fine source, and I use them personally myself, there’s just something about a Naim source… it won’t do some things as well as a Chord DAC, but it will do the “Naim sound” very well indeed.
Chord does not use an off the shelf DAC chip, it uses a virtual DAC created by programming a FPGA, Linn uses an AK chip with upgraded power supplies, others use ESS Sabre chips. These measure better than the Burr Brown chips Naim uses in terms if dynamic range and distortion.
The way Chord does its DAC requires the most effort IMO, I used to program FPGAs in my job, but nothing as complex as M Scaler and Pulse Array DACs. Naim has spent a lot of effort on its streaming engine, whereas Chord doesn’t offer a such a platform yet. Chord recommend playing CDs or using a computer. So different manufacturers have different likes and priorities.
In the end only the consumer can judge which is approach is worth the while, by listening. We won’t all agree. @Analogmusic has summarised this well.
The cost of the actual DAC chip is very low, but as I understand it, you can’t just choose a different chip or swap it for an FPGA. Implementation is everything, and Naim digital sources rely heavily on their optimisation of the DAC chip, and equally important, of the DSP that precedes it.
Sooner or later, Naim will have to revamp their DACs, as they are now using discontinued chips in relatively new products, and the next lot of new products will no doubt have to use a different chip altogether. But that means going right back to the drawing board, and it will be interesting to see what they can come up with.
Maybe or not…A few Dac chips later since the first CDS
The sound of a naim source will probably be consistent with the values of the company…as it isn’t really determined by the DAC itself alone and they have told us this many times over many years.
Otherwise any company could and would use a PCM 1704 or a PCM 1792A and it may result in a sound like a Naim source, but there’s more to it than that…
I also have not argued on the question raised by the OP in terms of sound quality. These (and the differences between NDX 2 and nDAC and NDX 2 and ND 555) have been thoroughly discussed in this forum and this information is fully available to the OP.
I have had a long demo of the ND 555 (you can find a short account of my impressions in the ND 555 thread) and I would try to demo the ND5 XS 2 and the NDX 2 if I had to choose between them.
If I couldn’t, I would probably go for the ND5 XS 2 for the reasons explained in previous posts.
There is nothing authoritative in these reasons, just my personal views, as I pointed out.
Again, thank you all for the continued conversation …
A good friend of mine brought up a very interesting point with me yesterday that I never really considered.
He said, " Bro, you already own a Roon Nucleus server which will support serving a stand-alone DAC with Tidal, music files on an outboard HD plugged into the back of the the Nucleus, plus, if you are only planning to access most of your music content through on-line entities, why do you need a streamer device in the mix at all, why not just a good DAC fed by the USB output of the Roon Nucleus?"
This is where things got a little confusing for me as I don’t have a lot of knowledge with computer / digital audio platforms. Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not a benefit to have a streaming device employed in the mix to properly sort out all the musical file contents properly, or is his argument valid here?
It is my understanding that if a stand-alone out board DAC is simply " ROON READY " , should this not mean that streaming music through Tidal ( which is 90% of my use ), with the Nucleus acting as that serving device make an additional streaming platform unnecessary? In essence, I would only really be getting benefits from the DAC section of of the NDX2 or ND5 XS2 anyway.
Forgive my ignorance here please, I’m new to all this.
