Naim Nova - Why do they convert Analog inputs to Digital?

And probably would just have been a “peace-of-mind” switch instead of a detectable performance option within the capabilities of this niche of products.

Sorry that is complete marketing drivel… if indeed it came from marketing collateral.
If you want to process and modify the audio deliberately to make it sound more appealing in a typical domestic replay setup then state that…

But statements that state ‘improved’ audio performance without saying how one is modyfying the digital audio signal is simply meaningless.

It sounds like DAB is going to better than FM all over again - because its digital

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I have had ND5 XS2/Nait XS2. The amp is ok and dearly loved by some members though I have no clear opinion on it, but the ND5 XS2 in unbeatable in its class in my opinion. I like it more than upper models.

Ouch… I think you’re misreading what I meant by “improved”. Obviously the digital stream doesn’t improve, nor have “more fidelity” than the original bit perfect data. I didn’t actually say / claim that, though.

But the internal Naim bitstream handling (DSP, filtering, upsampling, whatever) is managed as a system - and they upsample pre-DAC to make the post-DAC overall analog performance better than it would be if they left it native.

My belief is that this same path is used for ADC analog inputs as for the various digital and streaming inputs (and I’m pretty sure I had that from Naim but possibly in an offline conversation).

Same engineering rationale as why they do everything off-chip, including power supply filtering, etc., which leads to better overall performance with a given DAC chip than just using the example circuit. It’s also likely why looking at the chip number and typical specs has little (nothing?) to do with how good Naim can make a given part sound in their proprietary implementation.

I hope that clarifies my intention!

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Hi Alan, sorry I wasn’t having a swipe at you - you are a fellow Naimonian after all - I was referring to the references you were alluding to.

If these are all your works - then I respectfully suggest it would be good to qualify them for the benefit of us here :slight_smile:

Oversampling is part of the reconstruction process in a DAC chain - it is done to allow a particular DAC process to work effectively - IT doesn’t however improve the audio - its simply part of the reconstruction process that a DAC uses

Linn do it for a purpose, they want to apply the Space Optiimisation DSP to the digital stream before converting back to analogue.

In the AV world Meridian were doing it decades ago with the 562 preamp, which had line level analogue, phono (MM or MC), coax digital, & optical digital inputs, the output being digital to the surround processors (518), 565 or 568. The outputs from the processors could be line level analogue for active speakers or coax digital for their DSP speakers.

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A full Meridian, full digital system back in the 90s sounded amazing, they were ahead of time back then.

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Sounds pretty good in 2023!

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Not much heard about Meridian these days, shame did some great products.

And so were Yamaha… but if I am honest compared to my first Naim system I found the audio lacking in engagement and timing… but the Yamaha AV systems had a different job to do…but they did weigh a ton…
Much AV, and even more so back then used quite lossy multi channel formats…

They are still very much there… especially with AV and car audio systems, perhaps use cases that take advantage of their digital audio manipulation/processing… I do wonder if the whole MQA venture took some of the wind out of their sails though.

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Nobody (with the possible exception of a few people at Naim) can possibly know whether a Nova would sound better if it didn’t use ADC, because it cannot be bypassed, so comparisons are impossible. Jusy listen to it, and buy it if you like how it sounds.

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Well I really would be surprised if all things be equal if it didn’t sound better… an ADC to DAC is a lossy compromising process. Yes sure it can be done cheaply and effectively… but we are talking quality hifi systems where I suspect the resolution, phase accuracy, bandwidth of the analogue amplifier exceeds that of the ADC to DAC processing stage.
A quality low distortion, high precision, high bandwidth DAC stage is likely going to cost many many times more than the Nova itself.

Yes, I dare say you are right, and the fact that this is only done in the Unitis, not the separate streamers or streaming preamps, should be a clue. Still, when people make statements that clearly indicate they have heard the difference this particular ADC/DAC process makes that is clearly a fabrication.

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I’ve had a few experiences with (and am ‘very sensitive’ to) Digital; be it ‘volume controls’, or ADC (re)processing etc.

What I can concur, as has been mentioned already about the usability of “90s digital” for these tasks ie ADCing -On high end kit:absolutely worthwhile (seanless sound)

When done right… it is hard to tell.
regarding the Nova (ADC’ing inputs)
I can understand why people are using Vinyl and ‘being happy’ with the sound. (The super high frequency “aspects of ‘super human hearing’ required” to ‘feel’ the (Vinyl) difference might be missing, buy many users seemed to have not noticed!)…

I use an ADC process in my best setups; most recently was when I wanted to use my Anthem processor for its Anthem Room Correction, and to see what it could do on the Musical Fidelity NuVista M3…
Sounded pretty impressive.
I didn’t WANT to have my multiladder board (per channel) ‘ladder’/R2R DAC be crushed by an ADC process… but,… for what the Anthem Room Correction offered in terms of altering the sound in the listening space; I could flip a coin as to which is the setup I might prefer. (probably leaning in favour of recordings that really benefit from R2R’ing, and keeping them ‘pure’(/disengaging the ADC process then)). (The Anthem doesnt use much better than mid tier DACs and ADC componentry.
but; benefits are gained when doing both steps (ADC=>DAC) inside of one piece of kit.
(ie filters used in each step of the process can be matched!)

For a long whilst I used a Proceed AVP2 as a preamp.
It revealed to me that the ‘so called’ preamp stage in my good DACs (Burson Conductor V2+/Grace m903) just were not ‘world class’ top tier preamp quality.
So I loved engaging the Proceed AVP2 as a stereo preamp, which requires setting up the menus ‘just right’ or else, with a subwoofer attached, ‘very easy’ to have the Proceed engaging a whole slew of digital circuitry (and hence ADCing the feed)…

Turns out the OLD Proceed AVP2 is actually a pretty GREAT DAC as well. (easily beating many more modern components)
For the first couple of years of running it, I believe I had it in ADC modes for 60% of the time… (maybe more).-I was blissfully unaware

The trick comes to matching up the filters, which is easy when the DAC is engineered by the same team responsible for the ADC process.
Design ideals can be chosen for ‘what works best’.

ie they deemed ‘oversampling mode’ is the way…
(I use Non Oversampling modes when they sound ‘liver’…)

The team would have had goals and they no doubt learned A LOT, especially when they can coallaborate customer feedback.
If many run analogue feeds into those parts and are ‘none the wiser’; ‘more power to them’. :wink:

@whitedragem
You used inverted commas about 15 times in that post.

What is the intended effect of them on the meaning of what you write?

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Nothing to do with the inverted commas, but I’ve read the post twice and still don’t understand most of what was said…

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Exactly, how could anyone have heard this? There’s no way to circumvent it.

I know my turntable sounds great through the Star, I have no clue if it would sound better or different without the digitizing.

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I liked my Nova so much it tempted me to upgrade. It’s a real jewel of a piece of kit which many happy owners here will attest. My guess is that it’s been a good seller for Naim, like the Atom, and there are simply more in circulation. Some folks may be pricing theirs optimistically for the market.