Does it really make sense to not buy electronic digital equipment in a new factory. Evolve or die
Exactly. International manufacture doesnāt mean poor quality. Poor quality is a choice that often involves compromising to deliver to a price point. My iPhone was made in China, but Iām not going to suggest that itās a low quality device as it wasnāt made in the US.
The key question for Naim (and for us as fans of the brand) is whether they can maintain quality, and more importantly whether they sound good. For me, the fact that my Naim kit was built in Salisbury was never a deciding factor. The assertion that Naim can only be great if itās built in the UK rings a bit of Charlie Crocker in the Italian Johnā¦
When I lived in London (early 90s) I had a suit made to measure by a tailor who operated out of a tiny workshop a block or two from Savile Row. The bulk of his business was, in effect, outsourced manufacturing from some of the big Savile Row operations five minutes walk away. My gf at the time was a textile designer. She had lots of connections in the industry, and was the one who introduced me (he didnāt have a shop front as such).
The upshot was that I got a high quality fitted suit for less than a fifth of what Iād have paid had I gone in the āfront door.ā I now wonder how widespread this practice was/is: I imagine the typical punter assumes that their expensive suit is made in-house by a longtime employee. I skimmed a few of the big name websites, and theyāre vague on this point.
I own a an Epiphone Les Paul guitar, a Gibson variant made off shore which is a cheaper version of their USA made version. I love the guitar and it plays and feels very well but I would still like to own a Gibson USA made model even though it may not be that different.
Getting the same feeling here. I am someone who was born in South Africa where I lived most of my adult life, now living in the Netherland and bought my British made hifi in a Dutch shop who is convinced that Naim sounds the best regardless of where it is built. I agree.
I fail to see how the problem relates to the location of Manufacture. I doubt the Chinese factory gets to choose themselves which caps they use. Neither will the Slovakian factory be able to choose any parts etc. the only difference the location could make would be quality of execution and quality control.
Dajango,
Actually I think the reverse. When I chatted to Jason Gould recently it was absolutely clear that he and Naim remain very proud of the forum - it was one of Julianās great legacies - he created it and saw how it would create a Naim community and a direct link between ther company and its customers.
Frankly I think the commercial benefits to Naim far outweigh the niggles that occur from running it. How many of us have been inspired to upgrade by others raving about the addition of a power supply or a move to the next model up in the range? I would suggest an awful lot of us! The recent excitement on the foum about the new range is proof alone how powerful the forum is at driving demand.
In short I think hell will freeze over before Naim would ever close the forum!
Sounds like that was a charge by YOUR countries tax people. France doesnāt like the UK
And more important, the company is not driven by capital ventures
My experience of Chinese manufacture is that quality control can be very variable, and that is where problems can lie. If tightly controlled and monitored - which means ongoing not just at setup - and I guess that is what Apple do with iPhones, the products can be consistently excellent. At the other end of the scale they can have awful build quality with frequent failures. And of course all shades are possible in between, depending on the tightness of control exercised. One of the reasons is that work is often farmed out to smaller factories or in some industries to home workers, even where there is a nominal and very modern factory visible for inspection, as that makes for far cheaper production - and a non local business having the product made there likely has no inkling and canāt stop the practice nor adapt the quality control unless they maintain a very tight grip.
Yes, most companies make their mistakes throughout history I suppose, but hopefully in the future you will still be able to buy genuine British made hifi from Naim. Or at least European then. One must take care of oneās national treasuresā¦
We all know the Salisbury factory has been working to capacity and still struggling to meet demand even after freeing up the old speaker manufacturing space.
Itās quite clear that if Naim want to gear up production quickly to meet demand for newly released existing and imminent future products, this sort of agreement is the only way to do it. Finding a new or additional UK site, building and/or equipping the factory and recruiting and training staff would take much, much longer. The recourse to a EU base also offers additional advantages, but does not preclude Naim from also expanding its UK manufacturing base in the long term.
From my standpoint, keeping faith with the sonic/musical values, product quality and company ethos, including with respect to servicing of heritage gear, is whatās most important.
I like buying UK made and appreciate the UK hi-fi tradition, but still have US speakers, French headphones and a music server and switch made in Portugal.
My dealer, Simon from Infidelity worked with Roy Gandy in setting up Regaās loudspeaker and electronics manufacturing facility. Obviously he must have done a good job. If you see the video tour of the factory it looks very well set out and starts with two employees coming into the foyer to play pool!
It would be nice too see Naim do the same, pity JV did not back in the day when he owned itā¦ā¦much the same with John Franks at Chord electronics.
I do ālikeā the idea of buying local, most of my food is from within the local county. However I will buy from anywhere as long as it tastes good and the quality and animal treatment are high.
A bit like hifi, most of my gear is from the UK, however itās not a deal breaker. My speakers are from Norway and France etc. The quality is as good, if not better than the UK equivalent.
Times change, companies grow or disappear, but as long as the signature sound and quality of product and service remain high, Iāll continue to dip in and out of Naim product ranges.
We are a small part of Naims customer base and well looked after, as a part of the bigger picture, it will be a lot easier to sell 100,000ās of lifestyle products āvā a few 500 each year. Obviously they need high end to keep the reputation of a high end manufacturer, but thats not where the money is (catch 22, as with no high end the lifestyle stuff wouldnāt have the reputation behind it so wouldnāt sell in volume at a high premium).
Times change, companies evolve. Customers grumble about any change (green to white etc), but most of us will stay and the new capacity will bring a new younger customer base into play that will evolve, upgrade and allow the company to continue and also please the share holders.
I canāt believe this thread is rattling onā¦
Forget less about where itās manufactured. Iād save my worrying when the servicing and Engineer go to Slovakia.
For many on this forum ( and perhaps less likely to buy new?) the ongoing support that their boxes can be serviced ad infinitum matters more to them.
Iāve lived and worked in North America, Eastern Europe, and now in the UK for the past 15 years. One thing I have to say, is that this snobbery that things made in the UK are better, is pure nonsense and very egotistic. In fact, I found that the work ethic in the UK is much lower, and that workerās skills in North America and especially in Europe are much higher. So this idea that manufacturing Naim products in Europe will somehow effect the quality is just absurd. I actually believe quality control and workmanship will be better. Apologies if this offended anyone, Itās not my intention, Iām just commenting on my experience.
I think the number is lower; also subtract stores, goods out, cable making, test, service area etc who all count as āproductionā, the number of people making āclassicsā is pretty low.
One problem with toys imported from China used to be frequent failure against UK/EU safety legislation, with toys dangerous for young children due to, as one example, paint containing high levels of toxic metals like lead and cadmium. And that could be very variable with different examples of the same toy, and was identified as being due to, as one example, the painting farmed out to individuals working from home. The correct paint would be specified - but the workers found cheaper paint and used that to maximise their income, and that is near impossible to control. Someone I knew visited China as part of a trade delegation, wanting to import toys with confidence of meeting the required standards. They were taken to a wonderful modern factory with hundreds of staff assembling toys, painting them etc, with, the proper paint. All on the tour were very impressed, and orders flowed. This person found he had lost something at the factory, and went back next day by himself - to find the building was an empty shell. It had all been staged. The chances are that notwithstanding the display, production would be in the way I described above. That is a real example of what can happen if there is not tight ongoing control.
For clarity this is nothing to do with Rega, just highlighting that not all is necessarily as it appears, and the onus on an absent brand owner to make sure things are done properly at all times.
This example is China, because China has been mentioned in a negative way and in my experience does have a particular prevalence for production problems, however in my earlier post I noted that manufacturing certainly can work well there - and the same problems can happen anywhere. Personally I have no qualms buying Chinese stuff on quality grounds but do so with my eyes open. Human rights reasons are quite another matter and may be a different reason for minimising buying from some countries.