NAP 300 vs NAP 500

Thanks again for all the thoughtful insights. The answer is probably multifaceted.
@anon4489532 makes sense in that it may simply be that I prefer the presentation of the 300 over the 500. Various tweaks that were recommended and especially experimenting with speaker and listening position may be worthwhile.
There are aspects of the 500 that are clearly better. Expectations I’m sure,play a role as well.

Sometimes something just doesn’t work in a particular room, system, pair of ears. This is why it is vitally important to audition at home first.

The 500 is a remarkably subtle beast in how it communicates, almost a “less is more” proposition. The grip, transparency and sheer believability it brings, particularly to a 552 is no surprise for the asking price, yet remarkable when you compare it to a 300, itself a superb amp (and IMO the best value for money power amp Naim currently makes).

If it doesn’t work for you, then it doesn’t work. But it is more likely (not certain but more likely) that something is wrong. The speakers should just get out of the way and let the music sing. The 500 and 500DR can take months to fully run in. I assume you leave it switched on 24/7? Having said that, it ought to sound fantastic out of the box.

I had a similar problem with my 552, which we first used into a 300, later adding the 500. It just didn’t have the magic of the audition unit. I gave it a good 12 months to settle in. It sounded wonderful but it just didn’t engage and communicate like I thought it should. Naim took it back and Roy gave it the once over. It was rebuilt and one component (that I know of, it may have been more) was replaced. When it came home again the magic appeared instantly.

You are on safe ground with Naim. Unless the 500 just doesn’t somehow match your room/system for some reason, they will take your disappointment seriously and try to help you, be it the supplying dealer or the factory.

I really hate to hear that you are not happy with the move to the 500. I went from the 300 to 500 and found it to be a big difference. But I must add that at the same time I went from the 252 to the 552, so not the same as your journey. That may well prove have good the 552 is. Also instead of Sopra 3s I had the Maestro Utopia’s which I suppose were too much for the 300.

Hi Phil,
Out of curiosity how is you plug-in order into your G3? Best Peter

I think that one thing that can happen is that a lesser system will tend to reproduce all, or most, frequencies below a certain region as a somewhat higher frequency range. So, for instance, all the music energy below, say, 60Hz is reproduced at around 60 to 100 Hz. This can sound quite impressive - being louder relative to the higher frequencies. And our ear/brain system can interpret some of this as being at lower frequencies (which is why a kettle drum can be identified as a kettle drum even by a 2.5" speaker on a transistor radio). With a better system, some of this low-frequency volume decreases (or seems to) because it is spread over a wider range of lower frequencies. This can sound less ‘impressive’, but it is more accurate i.e. more like it was intended to sound.
Speakers that I had years ago were very good (for the time) and reproduced music well. However, at the lower frequencies it couldn’t reproduce the true notes, but tended to lump them all together at some - fairly low- frequency range. Changing to other speakers that could actually go lower resulted in what appeared to be less oomph in the lower registers - but actually what was happening was that there was more information in the very low frequencies.
It’s a little like photography. You can increase the contrast in a photograph, and it will look much sharper than the low-contrast version. But in fact, there is less information there.

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Hi @jsaudio

I had the 300DR and now 500DR.

I bought both amps new and compared them, side by side, in my own system.

For me, the 500DR is immensely above the 300DR.

It brings a lot more details, has a much lower noise floor.

It performs admirably well with complex music like classical.

When it comes to big orchestras the 500DR has a massively better ability to picture the orchestra, whereas the 300DR is blurrier.

But I well understand you may prefer the 300DR. Both amps are brilliant.

For me, the 500DR made THE difference.

Acoustic music is something delicate. If something is not right you notice it immediately. For me the 300DR was very good, but the 500DR sounded closer to the real thing.

Some think the 500DR is just about power. Well it’s not. Whatever speakers it drives, smaller or bigger ones, they all benefit from it.

It brought complex music like piano, voices, cellos, etc. to another level :notes: :musical_note: :notes:

That said, if it is the 300DR that brings a smile to your face, than the better amp is the 300DR. No discussion. And lucky you, the 300DR is a lot cheaper! :smiley:

NOTA :
Here are my first impressions when I swapped the 300DR with the 500DR

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The unlabelled one is the Innuos Zenith used to feed the nDAC. It has triple LPSs. I may have had the Rega Aria on the G3 but seem to prefer it on the bank of 5 wall sockets well away from the 500 + G3 which are at No. 1.

Sometime I will move the G3 away from the dent it has made in the carpet. Being very cautious these days - if it ain’t broke …

Phil

Streaks are light effects caused by fingerprints on iPad Air 2 lens. It certainly ain’t broke.

That did make me smile :clap:t2: ( welcome to the club of equally afflicted).
Very interesting that my plug in order is similar to yours, as I’ve spent ‘some time’ mocking about with various permeations:


I kept the old 552 label for the S1 on the plug, so that nobody notices the change :joy: ATB Peter

I’m resisting catching that affliction, which is why I started with sometime! If I do you are the infection vector.

Phil

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Just as a suggestion do you have any isolation feet on your Sopra’s, I have the Sopra No.3’s and have fitted Isoaccoustics GAIA I’s. To my ears they certainly make a difference to the sound, more focus and maybe with the 500 amp it may make the system sound better. I only have the NAP 300 but that sounds pretty darned good to my ears with the Sopra’s and the GAIA’s fitted.

I have wall to wall carpet on a suspended floor. Not very solid.
They are currently on Herbie’s gliders to allow adjustment in speaker position for now. Honestly I’m not sure if spiking them through the carpet sounds better since they would be coupled to a “wobbly “ floor.
I wonder if it would be better to uncouple them from the floor with something like the Gaia feet or leave them on these gliders .

Well that might be the culprit. The extra from the 500 may have pushed things too far. Strengthening the floor may be better.

Phil

Absolutely.

The more you couple the speakers to your suspended wooden floor, the more your floor becomes a gigantic speaker.

And that gigantic speaker will produce a mash of low-end frequencies that will mess with your direct sound.

Something like TownshEnd Podiums might help.

@PeterR just added a pair of those to his speakers and seams delighted with the result.

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I have a very wobbly wooden suspended floor (my listening room is on the first floor). When I moved my listening room, my speakers were temporarily unspiked to allow me to easily experiment with speaker positions. When I finalised the speaker positions I found that reinstalling the spikes brought a significant improvement.

I do understand the dilemma of whether to secure speakers firmly to the floor or decouple the speakers from the floor. Spiking reduces the speaker cabinet from moving in response to driven cone movements, thus preserving the intended cone movements relative to the speaker cabinet. Decoupling isolates the speaker from the floor and hence reduces vibrations in the speaker cabinet being transmitted to the floor, and from the floor to the listener.

Which way to go (spiking or decoupling) seems very speaker dependent. With my speakers, spiking is much preferred in terms of SQ, even though I have a rather ‘excitable’ floor.

Experimenting with spiking and decoupling is the only way to find out which is preferable with your speakers and your floor.

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Thanks, I wonder if the Gaia feet accomplish the same?

The GAIA’s are really good and you can get carpet discs with spikes on them to go under the GAIA’s. The Isoaccoustics certainly is worth trying and will isolate from your floor. You need to demo them.

I guess they achieve the same goal but differently.
Considering you have a carpeted room, the Podiums might be a better solution.
But I’m just guessing. I have no experience with those devices.

The higher in the range you go the greater the potential but the harder it is to realise. If an upgrade doesn’t satisfy then something you expect to make no difference is making one.

If you have a dealer on side who knows what he’s about he should be the first port of call.
I’ve learnt a few things from mine over the years and discovered a few more.

Very good point Yeti :+1:t3:ATB Peter

I went on the the same journey - loved the 300DR - and when I got the 500DR I wasn’t naive to expect fireworks, but I did expect more of what I already loved. And that’s exactly what I got.

The fundamental presentation wasn’t different to my ears - there was just MORE. More groooove, more depth, more snap.

I replaced like for like into a wall socket using a bog standard Naim Power Cable (I couldn’t use the PowerLines at that point due to a physical limitation of my shelf) and was immediately happy id made the right choice. Importantly - my wife was also happy - I don’t say that in a SHMBO way, but she listens to things purely on face value, with no investment (emotional or financial!) in it being better.

Kind of along the theme of what other people have said - I wonder if expectations are for angels singing and bright light up in the heavens, the journey CERTAINLY isn’t that. It’s not subtle either, but it’s “better” to my ears. MUCH better.

There’s something to be said for it just perhaps being change - like getting a new pair of shoes. They feel a bit wrong at first and you miss the old ones, even though you know they weren’t as good. But I’m surprised you’re shaking your head and not loving it.

I can’t comment on if you’ve got anything “wrong” with the setup, I know nothing of plugging orders and mains quality! …but if you replaced it like for like, and music is coming out you’ve got nothing wrong there that wasn’t wrong before.

Maybe - like somebody else said - grab a glass of something nice, kick back and see if the love flows! …we’ve all had that inexplicable euphoric experience associated with our setups - that kind of sets the tone for how we feel about it from that point on, you likely had plenty with the 300DR - sounds like you need one of those with the 500DR!

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