ND555 firmware update to 3.4.0, sound quality

Actually, very similar problem was discussed in old archived forums.

It was related to Atom/Star/Nova (not to ND555), but it seems the situation was the same.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic.php?p=1&oid=75342530303364532&coid=159503632588890

Same for all the latest stuff. My Atom does not sound the same as when I auditioned it and first brought it home. Only the last firmware update did it not change. First update of last year the bass boost came in and has stayed ever since. :frowning: Before that nasty brittle sounds on the first update in 2018. Likely this is my first and last Naim system. I should not have to be tweaking or changing components in my setup to compensate for something as simple as a firmware update. That and I do find it just too temperamental sound quality wise. Having to power cycle to bring it back on song is not what I expect from a £2000 product. I am considering trading it in and getting something else more consistent. What that will be ATM I dont know.

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Yes, many discussions in the past.

Unless device control software/firmware can be decoupled completely from affecting the DSP/DAC output (which may need a completely different hardware architecture to achieve this), then we are going to continue to get users who see changes to sound quality as favourable or unfavourable in their given systems.

Now either, this happens very frequently with different competitor brands which are also firmware updatable or perhaps it’s something specific to Naim, allowing more flexibility, I’m uncertain.

A flat refusal to allow someone with a 20k device (or even a device costing a few hundred) to revert to something sonically they were much happier with makes investing in a high-end product a big gamble for the customer, and for Naim, who as people have rightly mentioned may well look elsewhere in future or in the first place if this is seen as a negative.

If a similarly priced car went for servicing and suddenly aspects of computer controlled handling/power were changed which meant the customer no longer enjoyed driving the vehicle it would hit the headlines, even if such changes were well-intentioned.

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That’s the whole point.
We actually don’t know that.

There is a considerable difference between the software contained in a DAC and the software driving the new generation of streamers (obviously).

Considering that software has to be optimized (small, clean and fast) it is very much possible that some entanglement is needed.

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Would it be fair to sum this up as follows?

1 - New firmware is released periodically to address bugs, maintain compatibility with 3rd party services and occasionally add new welcome/requested features.

2 - Most agree that firmware can affect the sonic character of the streamers.

3 - Firmware induced changes to a streamer’s sonic character may sound better, worse or unchanged depending on other system components and listening environment.

4 - We have the option to stay with old no longer supported firmware or update.

5 - Should we choose to update for new features/bug fixes etc, if it’s sonically better/unchanged fantastic, but if it’s significantly worse in terms of system synergy and enjoymnet we have to live with it.

I thoroughly accept firmware changes can alter the sound, would it be so unreasonable to allow people to change back if it made them happier?

I’m undecided on current firmware in all honesty, the sound has been quite variable on my Nova in recent days.

Maybe it’s me and I need a firmware update.

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I agree Thomas, the vast majority of us have no idea how these things work at low level, and shouldn’t need to in all honesty.

In many ways it would be far simpler if there were no firmware updates at all, and the device worked ‘as is’ - sadly with modern music consumption trends and ‘mobile age expectations’ this could quickly leave expensive devices with a very short lifespan indeed unless they were limited to play local content over USB/LAN.

I thoroughly accept firmware changes can alter the sound >

For Naim it seems.

I have not heard of other kit suffering similar traits. Not that it might not for other kit but on the forums I frequent never heard of it from users.

Not really FW and SQ related, but once more time the same crap…

Now, when I turn on the tablet, it requests a new Naim APP update, and I allow it, of course… From there, the NDX2 stops working, the APP does not recognize it and the device, wire-connected to the network, does not recognize the connection… Hard reset, loss of all input and favorite settings, and nothing…, it’s still in the same.

For now, disconnected, a cup of tea, and waiting to return it back to plug…

In any case, very disappointing that every time there is a firmware or software update (App) you have to go through this ordeal with a product of more than 6000 €. I think it’s my last Naim, and if I’d known, I probably wouldn’t have even stayed with the streamer; really up to the balls…

Have you restarted the tablet and/or router?

Appreciate this is frustrating but networking is like black magic to me and the devices/apps using it can be the symptom of network settings/issues and not actually their fault.

Appreciate my suggestion is a bit like giving an old TV a whack to fix the vertical hold but the compnents in the middle can sometimes be the cause.

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Finally fixed, after two hard resets and a couple of tea cups…

But at best it’s very annoying, and at worst, as they’ve already said in the forum, if a current car worked like this every time its CPU is updated, it would simply be removed from the market due to security issues…, even today’s computers don’t work like this, requiring specific hard resets on virtually every OS update.

I doubt that the cost would be immense.

One counterexample - the main PS Audio dac often gets FW updates that intentionally have very different sonic signatures.
These can be reversed to any previous version by the user.

But then the PS Audio Directstream uses a reprogrammable FPGA, iirc - so the costs may be more using Naim’s hardware and software systems.

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Maybe there’s a pattern that Roon users (such as you and SiS) were significantly less effected by the change?

I use Roon (with Qobuz and some local CD rips) and the change is massive. For the better to my small ears (I actually have quite small ears). Could it be a ND555 thing? Or a small ears thing?

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Did you finally have your NAC A5 cables properly terminated? as from what you describe it sounds to me you haven’t. Having to re-boot your system for it to come on song, and then as time goes on, performance starts to deteriorate, almost certainly points to a connection error in my experience.
Normally the system will sound a bit ropey from a re-boot and then perform better and better as time went on.

Except that the native Qobuz support after the update sounds no better to me than using Qobuz via Roon. So if the FW update improved the SQ such that it – as you suggest – doesn’t affect Roon users, then it would stand to reason that using the native Qobuz support should provide such SQ improvement, and thus sound better than Qobuz via Roon. That is not the case, at least in any way that I notice.

Humm - perhaps loosen off the headgear windings a tad??

Now there’s a theory!

I haven’t followed all the threads closely, but if anyone has noticed that the new FW tends to please ND555 owners more than users of NDX2s and other streamers that would be an important finding for me (as I’m still trying to weigh up whether to get one).

Nah, I noticed the SQ improvement (my ears/system) after the firmware update and I have a lowly ND5XS2 and listen almost exclusively to Tidal/local files via Roon. I thought it was this new Mexican beer at first that I was trying. :slight_smile: I was posting almost immediately looking for confirmation.

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ND555 my screen has just frozen not done this for along time ?

I pre-ordered the ND555 without having listened to it. Simply because I thought my NDS with XPSDR using Tidal was very, very good, and I thought Naim would not bring out a 500-series streamer if it would not be a lot better than the NDS. I also wanted to be a part of the ride in a way, rather than buying it a few years down the line. I came late to the NDS and streaming in general. Then came the ND555 with 555PSDR, then Roon/Qobuz, then 2nd 555PSDR, then Cisco Shenanigans, then now the recent Firmware-Gate. It has been a lot of fun and I am enjoying it all immensely. I listen to music every day, more than ever. Vinyl seems like a distant memory (but I have not given up on it). The forum and all the stuff going on here is a nice bonus and I find it most of the time very entertaining and useful. I do sympathize with those who are not getting on with the recent firmware for various reasons, but for my part it has been a flabbergasting improvement.

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