Gazza, are you going to the Bristol Show, and if so, what day? I am going on the Saturday.
To the OP - apologies for the disgraceful thread diversion.
Gazza, are you going to the Bristol Show, and if so, what day? I am going on the Saturday.
To the OP - apologies for the disgraceful thread diversion.
I’ve generally found that the idea of ‘source first’ is not exactly right and the Pre should be very good to match the source or you seem to cram a lot at the Pre and it does not always emerge as wanted.
With digital-origated source in particular the Pre seems more important for whatever reasons, so I’m not surprised.
The 552 is a very special Pre that allows everything to ‘work’ and you feel nothing is struggling or restricted in being able to be musical was my impression. I did originally try the 252 and it was a fine Pre but the 552 blew it away in clean dynamics and the way it handled bass cleanly and decay of notes better.
DB.
No off tomorrow with wife for a few days, it was her birthday beginning of the month. Reports from the Bristol show vs Signals show( only one I have Done) does not entice me. Have a great time Nigel.
Yep, agreed, couldn’t put it better myself.
I have erred towards the source first mantra (some might call it dogma) but have always felt that the pre is the beating heart of any system. I have always has the best pre and source I could afford as I believe the pre is a fundamental part of the source and the two work hand in hand.
This is born out in my current system NDS/555DR/552/250DR and unfashionable MA GX300 speakers. Yes a grand Monkfish with a large mouth (NDS/555DR) and a huge head (552) and a weedy tail (250DR/MAGX300s). But flippin’ heck, can that 250DR sing and drive those old speakers when fed with a quality signal.
Again, apologies to the OP for digressing.
i know all that, i have followed your thread « fight between 252/ nd555 and 552/ nds », something like that.
The recent hificritic review reinforces the necessity of a preamp at a minimum of 552 to really benefit from the nd555 vs nds.
In that point of view, i said you have taken the right choice.
ps: jeter un pavé dans la marre. the french expression of put the cat amongst the pigeons.
To follow-up - some interesting results, all with the Cinnamon:
I tried the 3m length the ‘right’ way around and it was good but a little less immediate than the 1.5m version. I tried it the ‘wrong’ way and I though it was clearer.
I then returned to the 1.5m version the ‘right’ way and it was better than the 3m cable in being more immediate and with better clarity - but it did not sound right.
Back to the ‘wrong’ way (arrow pointing away from ND555 to the Melco music server) and much better clarity and 3D-rendeing …just overall more interesting.
So good I accidentally found this out as otherwise I’d never have found it out.
The cable manufacturer recommends their arrow point in direction toward the DAC/Streamer, so I’m disagreeing in the context of my system.
Test track was Suzanne Vega ‘Solitude Standing’ for all this as it is a tricky track with good dynamic and female vocal.
DB.
Manufacturers seem reluctant to explain the reason for any directionality. There was some speculation that it might be to do with which end the sheilding was connected to, a bit like using a ‘Lindy adapter’ at one end or the other.
interesting. A lot of members here were laughing when some were saying that the ethernet cable doesn’t sound the same in each different direction.
…I tried that and it sounded particularly and spectacularly awful - I had to remove it mid-track as the system was spitting harshness.
DB.
How strange, I don’t recall anyone else reporting anything other tgan a subtle improvement, or no difference at all.
May be a bad cable interaction with these particular boxes, but my standard CAT7 which I was getting prepared to sound a bit different or hopefully better did not when the ND555 end was fitted with the plug. I was not after that going to pursue it farther as it was not subtle - glad I tried it and know what it does - and it is not expensive so not a problem.
Things can sound different in an Active system - something nicely brighter in a Passive system may go too far Active.
DB.
Well, it was a week ago exactly that Phil from Cymbiosis came down with my ND555 and 2nd 555PS. We experimented quite a bit while he was down and all the tweaks attempted were surprisingly disappointing.
First off we used the Netgear GS105 switch with FRIWO medical power supply and the 500 system (ND555 with 2x555PS, 552 and 500) powered via a Powerigel.
This sounded pretty much what I had settled upon at the end of the demo. So far, so good.
Replacing the Netgear GS105 with a CISCO “as-new” factory refurbished 2960 switch solidified things, enlarged the soundstage, smoothed things out and… took the life and breath out of the sound, particularly robbing acoustic instruments and voice of their tonal complexity and expressiveness. Timing also suffered. Not for me at all.
Having listened to a variety of music in the hope that the Cisco might warm up and clear its name, we moved back to the Netgear switch, confirming the above conclusions.
Next up was to replace the Powerigel withe new Powerigel Plus very kindly provided by Naim for the demo. Astonishingly the result was very similar to the above, an improved noise floor, increased separation but also a loss of detail in timbre and inflection. As with the Cisco, the shimmer of harp, honk of trumpet, bell-like percussive quality of Steinway treble notes and breathiness of the younger Schwarzkopf’s voice were all lost. Bass was also less articulate. The separation proved to be a strange artefact, occurring within instruments. I can only infer this is a property of the cables or their insulation. I know that Chord have claimed PTFE can do this. And yet I found something similar with their Music interconnect, as reported earlier in this thread. The Powerline mechanical isolation imported into the Powerigel Plus seems a very good idea and I can’t attribute the weaknesses I heard to that. As far as we were able to tell the Powerline Plus had been well used, too, so it wasn’t a burn-in problem.
The icing on the cake came with the purchase of some beautifully made Belden ACT5e Ethernet cables to replace the thin and flexy unbranded cables supplied withe switch. Sadly, rather than an improvement , the Beldens had similar negative effects to the Cisco Switch and Powerigel Plus, a darker, more congested tonally blank sound that suffered considerably in timing and expressiveness. Putting the cheapies in after a couple of days perseverance in the hope of a burn-in effect came as a massive relief.
So here I am listening to the system with the smaller switch and cheapie cables and getting the best sound ever in my life, definitely superior to good old CD555, notwithstanding the inevitable burn in up-and-down, which is comparable to the 500DR. That said, I am astounded that such an amazing piece of equipment should be so easily crippled by ancillaries. I’m very glad I didn’t opt for any of these “improvements” on spec. I would have had no idea what I was missing.
Thanks as ever to Phil for his patience and professionalism.
I’m currently playing with the Minim and Asset, but have just got some M.2 SDD modules for the Qnap, so will install Roon when I get a second free and see how that works for me.
had similar experience, but in the context of NDS. Cisco switch didn’t work for me (could have been the switch – bought off fleabay). As I have reported before – the ethernet cable from Netgear switch to NDS is a German made el cheapo. I didn’t get on with Chord, Audioquest and other exotic net cables.
congratulations on your ND555
enjoy/ken
yes, DB, the active curse!! high sensitivity …
enjoy/ken
My purchase of today is the Audioquest Cinnamon 1.5m cable - used the wrong way around.
It never occurred to me that Ethernets had a direction (they don’t but HiFi ones do) so I’d been testing it the ‘wrong’ way, pointing toward the ND555.
But having tried it the ‘right’ way it became rather lacking and dull by comparison - back to the wrong way and much better clarity.
The right way may be right for Passive systems but for Active it reveals an amazing clarity and extra resolution on both timing and detail that I’m still amazed an Ethernet cable can provide.
I’m presently past ‘why’ and just enjoying the ride and music.
DB.
I’ve nothing (yet?) to contribute to discussion of ND555 virtues, but I find a lot in MichaelB’s post resonates with me. I’ve had several such experiences of new components that offered cosmetic improvements to the sound, but which ultimately only served to kill the music stone dead. Naim Audio’s ultimate USP is to produce components that ride very slightly on the raucous side of good behaviour, but make alternatives sound bland. This includes their recommendations on ancillaries and system implementation rather than just the boxes IME.
I also found it best not to presume anything until you verify yourself. I tried Minim and Twonky on my Melco music server and preferred by a large margin the Twonky server - even though I was no meant to like it as much.
On farther and at least two other owners have opted for the Twonky too - I uninstalled the Minim option that was running as an alternative server option yesterday and it was a large improvement in performance (just to be running one music server package on the machine) - a more fluid and transparent sound that I was not expecting and another welcome increase in performance from the wonderful ND555.
I’ve inquired about Roon and been told that it does have a signature ‘liquid sound’ it imparts so that has put me off for now, but at some point I’ll try to get a demo. It may be great but I’d verify first rather than just assuming it is great because it has a following - it may be - I hope so as I’d be interested, but I’ll verify myself first.
DB.
Interesting about Twonky, which is sadly no longer supported, Lynx having been wound up in October last year according to Wikipedia.I’ll certainly experiment with uninstalling one of the servers if the other shows preferable performance. I’m also a bit wary of the Roon “sound” and installing a Russian doll suite of apps…
I would have agreed in the past, but found the same tonal problems withe Superlumina interconnect…
While it works I’ll use it until I hear another server do as well or better. Lack of support does not mean it does not work on all the present platforms - just no intent to take it further onto new ones or fix faults. Since it is a very developed product it is quite good and I’ve run it on another server for years continuously without fail, so I’m not overly worried.
I understand that Minim will be getting a lot more development going ahead so what I found may not apply going ahead - hopefully things improve. But I like to verify as sometimes people value functionality and user interface over SQ and the bottom-line for me is SQ first then the other aspects of its utilization.
DB.