NDac v NDX2

Your dealer is different to the number I have spoken to who just bang on about the newer ndx2 has to best without understanding or being able to explain why

Seems good advice. No harm in listening to the NDX2 first though.

My basic idea is common sense. Maximizing the hifi value while minimizing the number of boxes.

You remember reading somewhere? That electronic signals take time to travel? The distances we are talking about compared to the speed of signals to travel those distances is negligible- difference in time to travel 2cm cf 20cm is unmeasurable, even if it took seconds it would not effect the music, one would hear it all a tad later

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You following the wrong brand then

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Iā€™m looking at a Moon Mind2 as a source for my nDac and started a thread about that. A couple of forum members had used this combo with success.
Itā€™s about 2/3 the price of a ND5SX2.

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Agree totally ā€¦ I still use the original Chord Hugo as an external DAC and bought ND5XS2 ā€¦ brilliant piece of kit. I didnā€™t need a flashy colour screen and to my ears, I could hear no benefit to buying NDX2 (when using the digital output) compared to the ND5XS2.

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A quality streamer feeding the Naim DAC with its digital output would perform well.
The Naim DAC was the first of a line of DAC / Streamer DACs that follow a similar architecture.
There are similarities between the DSP and analogue stages between the NDX2 and Naim DACā€¦ and the digital filters are I believe identicalā€¦ in fact they are identical to the ND555 and NDS as well.

As far as sonic performance the NDX2 or similar quality streamer feeding the Naim DAC is almost certainly going to be improved in terms of nuance, accuracy and spectral resolution compared to using a NDX2 on its ownā€¦ which one you prefer however will be entirely subjective.

In my experience the Naim DAC is probably more sensitive than average on the quality of the digital inputā€¦ such as transport clock and unintended currents such as common mode currents.

Therefore you will likely hear a difference between different streamer front ends connected to itā€¦

As far as a streamer front endā€¦ there are several considerationsā€¦not least this is the engine that controls the rendering process as well as can provide visual cueā€¦ sure you can rely on remote devices like tablets if that is your thingā€¦ or more rely on the streamer itself.

I prefer the latterā€¦ and the ndx2 in the Naim camp fitted my requirement

BTW the Naim DAC really starts to perform with an additional power supplyā€¦ and with a PS555 (non dr) it really struts its stuff.

You could end up with the Naim DAC end using three power supplies for your streamerā€¦
Streamer front end powersupply (either inbuilt or separate)
Naim DAC digital electronics PSU (inbuilt NDAC PSU)
Naim DAC analogue electronics PSU (external NDAC PSU)

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Good summary @Simon-in-Suffolk - I concur :slightly_smiling_face:

In my case, after many years running my NDX2/555PSDR in an all Naim system, I now use my NDX2 bare with Powerline as a transport into nDAC also using inbuilt PS with a Powerline.

Naim upgrade convention dictates that an external PS on nDAC would improve performance, but hooked up to my Sugden amps, the NDX2/nDAC combination (sans external PS) sounds wonderfully balanced. I tried XPSDR and 555PS on nDAC but it pushed the envelope too much somehow, especially with my Sugden amps and Marten speakers.

IMO the nDAC remains to this day a great piece of kit. I much prefer it to the NDX2 inbuilt DAC. If I hadnā€™t already invested in the NDX2, I may have considered the ND5XS2 with nDAC. However, I agree the NDX2 screen and remote are a great addition and both really add to the user experience.

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Thanks SIS, I canā€™t figure out why but your writings seem to carry much weight. The 555ps keeps turning up in my research, so much so I feel I owe it to my system to end up forking out for one knowing that if I donā€™t I will be selling it short. At the moment I am feeding the ndac (powered by xps-dr) tidal using my humble iPhone and am very pleased with the sound- it is on par (if not a better) with my bare cdx2ā€¦ I presume you would suggest that a ND5 or ndx2 will give me a worthwhile step up? If so would there be much difference between the ND5 and ndx2 acting as transports in this set up (252/300 pmc twenty5.26)?

Thanks bongoman, interesting to hear that you prefer internal ps on digital sources- music to my fiscally alert sub conscious, although my other half and I both noticed a good step up when adding the xps-dr to the Ndac. I just asked SiS about any difference on performance in using the nd5xs2 or ndx2 as transports, you seem to put choice beteeen them down to whether or not one wants a screenā€¦ can u confirm? (A screen looks ok but I enjoy dipping in to different genres and skimming tidal catalogue so would mostly use naim app). I concur about the excellence of the Ndac, still a top shelf well designed super sounding external dac- an even better evolved ndac as a digital hub would work more today than when the ndac was born but I guess Naim hope they can sell more ND5/ndx2 boxes instead

I have an NDac powered with an XPS DR. The NDac developed a fault in 2020 and got sent back to Naim for a service and they also put a new board in it. I got my XPS DR serviced October 2021 and that combination has excelled, my XPS DR must have badly needed a service as when it came back transformed the NDac.

Now feeding the NDac I have my converted CDX2 on input 1 (BNC) with a Naim DC1 and on input 2 I have my Unitiserve SSD also with a Naim DC1 and on input 3 I have a Lindemann Bridge which is Roon certified and connected with a Stereovox cable.

It sounds pretty good when I compare it with my NDS, however the NDS seems to sound better with CD quality and up to 192k music, I use a Sonore Bridge to make it Roon compatible but the Lindemann through the NDac really does DSD very well.

But in the end your ears will be the deciding issue.

Tim

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Even though the NDS is a classic component it crosses into the 500 bracket due to its capability to except both burndy feeds from a 555 PSU.

The NDS unlike the ND555 is versatile and can use the bottom of the range XP5XS, XPSDR and 555 PSU.

The NDS today is an absolute steal especially if you dont require Qobuz.

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Thanks Tim, I do keep looking at the NDS, most of its DAC is exactly same as Ndac so in my mind it would replace my ndac AND stream Tidal, only drawback is that the next super-streaming service I get sucked in to may be out of reach without more boxesā€¦ but then again it would become my external dacā€¦ decisions decisions!!

Thanks hi fi man, with bongoman you have reminded me that an nds may serve me as well as ndac/ND5 or ndx2ā€¦bloody hellā€¦

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As I canā€™t decide perhaps I can ask for votes on the following three choicesā€¦ my system is currently 202 with napsc and hicap-dr controlling nap200 to pmc twenty5.26, amps soon to be upgraded to 252/300ā€¦ currently using tidal (standard service) which streaming set up?

  1. Ndac with xps-dr fed by nd5xs2

2.NDS with option to add bridges etc or future streaming options

  1. Ndac with xps-dr fed by dedicated third party transport

In addition to the screen and remote, the NDX2 has a much improved inbuilt power supply compared to the ND5XS2, and does improve performance. If you intend to use it without an external PS this should be a consideration.

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I am glad you find my musings helpfulā€¦ :grinning:

As far as worthwhile upgrade of Naim streamer over iPhone as a streamer digital source for your Naim DACā€¦ it could be interesting. I sold my Naim DAC several years back, so I am going by memoryā€¦ but the when you connect an iOS device I believe itā€™s doing a proprietary file transfer ā€¦ it should work well. The iPhones can make great front endsā€¦ certainly if your force it into flight mode (turn off radios)

I find an iPad feeding (via USB) a quality DAC/amp like a Hugo driving high end headphones like Empyreans works fantastically wellā€¦ in fact I would say itā€™s one of my best replay setupsā€¦ and my best portable setup

So I canā€™t hand on heart say replacing the iPhone will make a significant differenceā€¦ you will need to give it a try and decide for yourselfā€¦

One thing I can say for sure, sonic performance and preference is not necessarily directly proportional to cost.

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I had a recent home demo of a well used NDX2.
Interesting differences in my set up and room.
I find the Ndac is very similar to headphone listening. ā€œThe band is playing in my headā€ experience where things are close up with more observable details. Although with some limitations in absolute distance.
With the NDX2 it seemed more like ā€œThe band is playing in the roomā€ experience. Not so forensic, but where the details gel together more to give a coherent spatial quality.

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Is in the head better or not as good as in the room???