NDS and LP12

The Kore makes a big difference from original sub chassis. When I got recommendations as to what to do first on an LP12 I was advised on upgrading the sub chassis before power supply and phono stage. The OP has these maxed out and a good tonearm and is not satisfied compared to the NDS.

Hence suggestion of Kore!

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LOL :grin:
The subchassis upgrades IME help organise the music so it’s easier to listen to and follow. I’ve been through the pre-Cirkus (original on my 1988 LP12), Cirkus, and Majik before ending with the Kore.

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Is the Karousel worth it?

Most definitely. :+1:

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I did think about the sub chassis at the time but felt I needed to hear both the Kore and Keel and if it was the Keel it would have to wait until at least next year.

In any case I think I take a deep breath and enjoy all the albums I have bought as I still haven’t played them all or at least both sides of every album. I live in Bath area so Cymbiosos is hardly on my door step.

I wouldn’t spend any more on the LP12 at the moment. My LP 12 was at the same spec as yours until a few weeks ago (except I have a Dynavector cartridge). I then had a Kore, Karousel and an Ekos SE fitted by Peter at Cymbiosis which certainly brought it up to a new level. However, the point I wanted to make was that before the upgrades it sounded excellent and comparable with my CD555 (all things being equal). Your LP12 has been well set up and is already at a high spec, so I am not convinced that you will get any more pleasure from it by further upgrading. I would suggest two possibilities - first that the presentation of the music on LP is different from the NDS and you actually prefer the latter, perhaps because it is what you are familiar with. Secondly, rather than spend more on the turntable, you could investigate further the albums that you think are inferior on the turntable. You could try posting on the vinyl thread here and see if anyone has the same pressings or can recommend alternates. There is no doubt that there is a lot of variability in current LP pressings and some are not done with much care. If you are feeling brave and want to risk going down a rabbit hole, there is always the Steve Hoffman music forum which is full of discussion of all aspects of music production, pressings, mixes etc. All to be read with a large dose of salt, but once you get used to the obsessions and hyperbole can actually be a very useful source. Once you are much more familiar with the Linn and listening to LPs, then would be the time to upgrade if you decided you needed to.

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I own NDS/555PSDR and LP12/Karousel/Keel/Ekos SE/Dynavector DV1ts, Urika, Radikal.

Yesterday I spent hours listening to music, and eventually went into ‘background listening’ mode while I did some ‘essential printing’ for SWMBO. Whilst doing this I set the CD version of The Beatles “Please Please Me” up on the NDS, but had to get up and take it off to put on my ORIGINAL Mono LP version (it was either the 1st or 2nd LP I ever bought!). The LP was MUCH better and more enjoyable, even with a few crackles and sputters.

This is not to say that the LP12 is better than my NDS, as I listen to both regularly, and enjoy both. Sometimes the digital version is better and vice versa. For instance, I went through 3 (yes, 3!) copies of the Les Miserables London show LP and couldn’t find an acceptable copy. All were warped and had bad surface noise. In that case the digital version (now ripped to my NAS) is preferable.

I think that sometimes we get carried away by the search for ultimate “hifi” realism and forget that it’s really all about whether you enjoy the music itself. I have several MP3 and iTunes downloads purchased because I couldn’t find them on LP, CD or lossless download. I still enjoy listening to them. Try “Transcendence” by Rob Lane from the "Discovery of Witches Season 2 soundtrack. Absolutely sublime.

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I think the advice above to simply enjoy each source for what they are is probably best. The emotional connection you have with the LP12 is special and I am sure cherished.

If you remain curious why not book a dem to compare your streamer with a Klimax LP12 just to get a benchmark of what is possible? The idea of the Kore is also a good one and not too expensive by Linn standards.

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The good old LP12 has a certain “sparkle” about it that is hard to describe but very enjoyable. My NDS sounds great too and has the convenience factor - both play a part in my music listening.

Gary

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This may be the issue. The original steel subchassis wasn’t designed for the Cirkus or Karousel.

That spec of deck should be just as compelling as your NDS but in a different way.

Also what arm do you have and has it been serviced or had the bearings checked?

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@Dungassin
@CliveB
@ and all, really appreciate your feedback and will take on board your comments as they make a lot of sense.

I have been listening to a lot of music lately, probably over 100 new albums this year with 50 new vinyl which I haven’t really had time to enjoy as been flipping between them and checking for scratches etc. So it’s time I slowed down a bit and just be. I’m sure the Kore will come or maybe a Keel, damm this hobby of ours :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

@nicnaim the arm (original Ekos) would have been checked when I had the service and updates. The actual deck has not been used properly since 97 and has been in my loft.

I’m just shocked that a LP12 specialist would use a subchassis that is not reinforced to work with the new bearing and will throw off the height of the sub platter.

Yes, that struck me as odd too.

I thought you could swap a Cirkus bearing for the Karousel without upgrading the sub-chassis to Kore or Keel. The Cirkus sub-chassis was steel, I believe.

I do not believe the Karousel bearing will fit the ‘original’ (pre Cirkus) steel chassis. Do you mean the Cirkus steel chassis - which I think it will fit…?

Will admit I am at the limit of my LP12 knowledge here… I know I had to have a ‘new’ (steel) chassis to have a Cirkus - my ‘original’ 1985 chassis was not suitable.

See my previous post to yours. I think when Andy says ‘original’ he means the chassis that was fitted when he originally got it, not the first chassis that came originally with the LP12. The Karousel was probably substituted for a Cirkus bearing in the Cirkus steel chassis.

Which is what I was suggesting… Having had to have the chassis from ‘original’ to Cirkus (standard steel), to allow a Cirkus bearing to be fitted, to my 1980’s LP - by @Cymbiosis - myself. Albeit its chassis wasn’t its original, but a 1985 fitted ‘upgrade’ - glued version, maybe…?

My LP12 is VERY old now… :smirk:

A couple of observations for you all if I may:
Firstly Linn Products Ltd provide a spacing washer which can be used so as you can use a pre-cirkus sub-chassis with a Karousel. It is not possible to do this with the Cirkus. The bearing attachment system is different and this allows for this.

Generally there are no problems with the radikal motor touching a trampolin foot. It is a problem that occurs rarely and it was me that reported it first to David Williamson of Linn Products Ltd back in 2011. Since then I have seen it on five occasions only. However, distortion of the T2 foot if the fixings have been overtightened causing the foot ring to distort is more common problem but this can be easily rectified, so it can occur and so on each and every LP 12 I set up I’m always looking for it. It is good however, that the information/warning is out there as it allows people to avoid the problem.

As we all know the quality of vinyl pressings does vary a lot and unfortunately the format is prone to damage/noise which can be frustrating and annoying but that’s vinyl, that’s analogue!

Of course people can musical enjoyment in different ways and personally I’m looking for the most musical performance but if noise bothers you then some of the high resolution digital that out there may be the best solution. KR, Peter

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@Cymbiosis - Interesting. Thank you.

I understood that the Karousel bearing needed a Cirkus (such as the original steel version) or a later sub-chassis…? Based on information on the Cymbiosis website - ‘Take A Ride On…’ - ?

I’m sure Peter knows what he’s talking about…

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