That doesn’t sound right at all - is your Fibre Box just a modem or also broadband router…
Switches connect to routers the world over…
Is your TP wifi AP also a router? …
Perhaps share the TP product number
and the product description of your Fibre Box
In Orange language the Fibre box is a rouer-modem…
Router-modem sorry
To go into into more details I will have to be at home.
This is more likely that the Orange box brings a problem. All the LAN hardware: any change of connection, it does not change anything, I always get NDS room vanishing in the App. Maybe fast and maybe wrong assumption, this is not the source of the problem that is elsewhere.
Following up on the comment above regarding IGMP snooping, I recently started seeing a connection problem, not with the Naim app, but this time with Bubbleupnp not seeing my 272 as an available renderer. This only started after I added a D-Link switch. Take away the switch and no issues. Did a bit of research and found this which was in response to similar issues people were seeing with the D-link switch I was using:
- IGMP Snooping is a capability found on some Ethernet Switches (typically “Managed Switches”) that enables it to pass multicast traffic only to those connected client devices (e.g. dCS DAC) who’ve “joined” a multicast group, while filtering out multicast to all other ports.
- Also associated with IGMP Snooping is something called a “Group Membership Interval”, this is a time-limit that an Ethernet Switch will maintain the list of clients who’ve joined to receive multicast packets. Once the timer expires, the Ethernet Switch will filter out multicast to that client/port on the original list unless the client device re-Joins membership to the multicast group.
This can’t be turned off with my switch. I just got around it by unplugging the ethernet cable to the 272 and plugging it back in again. This was on the guess that the switch would forget things if I unplugged the cable :-). I don’t really need the switch, but it is only a few feet away from my listening position, so it’s not a problem for me to do this, and always solves the issue. Don’t know if that problem is in anyway related to yours, but it’s “food for thought”…
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Hi - what is your TP wifi/wswitch product? As you describe it I can’t see how the Fibre Broadband router has anything to do with it.
With little to go on - I would hazard a guess - there is some sort of double routing on your TP wifi - or your TP wifi has an incompatible implementation of IGMP snooping. IGMP snooping in consumer world is mostly used in higher end home broadband routers and wifi - especially if the ISP support multicast TV. Snooping is important on wifi as it stops unnecessarily loading the wifi bandwidth with traffic if no client wants it.
In my experience it’s typically in poor/mediocre wifi products that have issues with understanding versions of IGMP. Commercial grade switches tend to support IGMP snooping as standard as its a fairly basic capability in none domestic envionments. Cheap consumer and so called audiophile switches don’t support these more advanced functions and gratuitously retransmit multicast on all ports… so wouldn’t cause an issue here - as all we are talking about is the SSDP IP group address (for UPnP) which only has a small amount of traffic.
The fact you say the 2960 switch did work when plugged into the switch port of your Fibre router - with your app is using wifi of your TP wifi - it does look like there is some sort of double routing or double netting going on which is a no no… but then you also describe an issue you would see with IGMP discovery being blocked
The aim is to keep simple it. Use regular mesh wireless APs connected to your router switch or 2960 switch. Ensure there is no NATing or similar enabled in your Wifi - it shouldn’t have that at all. Once done and still have that disappearing items in the app - disable IGMP snooping on all interfaces you can, and reintroduce until you see issues - that will be the incompatible device.
Mike of this parish had a good diagram at one time
Router → switch → wifi access port(s)
switch → streamer / server / other switch as required
Hello,
TP Link Wifi Mesh Deco M9 Plus is the name of the wifi mesh. A quick research shows that it would be IGMP Snooping enabled by default setting and possibly disabled via Web UI. I will look into that and investigate the NAT as well.
My installation does respect your diagram I think as I have Router-modem → TP Link mesh → Cisco 2960 → EE 8switch → NDS all with cable link.
Many thanks for your contribution!
Hello David, Helo Simon,
I am back home. I am more than amazed.
My first test before connecting the NDS straight to the router, before getting the IGMP grease is to run let the NDS play by the Spotify app for hours. Spotify “native” on the ipad. I still have the cascade wifi mesh - cisco switch - EE 8switch This is less data of course as they still do not have CD formats. My wife only uses Spotify and she told me it remained perfectly stable.
Thus, is it not the legacy streamer that is trapped by CD and hires standards more than a network problem (which anyway was David’s initial point).?
Puzzled.
Eventually, I sent NDS straight to Repair and Service at Focal’s. When it comes back, I will take the wifi mesh out of the loop and connect the Cisco switch straight to the fibre router-modem as I remember that before introducing the wifi mesh I had never had a problem streaming from Uniti Core. To solve Qobuz streaming, I intend to attempt the Mac mini + Audirvana solution. Why? Because introducing ND5XS2 as a streamer would oblige me to move Uniti Core out of the Fraim stack and close to the router-modem. It would no longer benefit from the Fraim and it would lose the benefit of the Furrutech wall plug. My Uniti core is sensitive to PS cable and is improved by a AQ Tornado power cable. I am reluctant to remove it from the Fraim. I have room for the Mac mini; I make the (right or wrong?) assumption that as the Upnup flow will enter via the ethernet socket it will go through the NDS streamer and lose nothing of its very high abilities. Thanks all of you for your contributions.
Moreover, I am not completely convinced unless I would hear it that ND5XS2 + DC-1 + NDS strictly equals NDS stand alone. I tend to think that the engineers must have done better by tuning the NDS. Mac mini will have another usage if it disappoints me. ND555 would be best but NAC 552 stands first on my road map!
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Internet streaming services (such as Tidal, internet radio) sound better on gen 2 devices (we went from 272 to NDX2). Gen1 devices can’t support more modern lossless radio stream formats. Gen2 devices have bigger buffer to cope with hires streaming.
For local/uPNP playback I think the NDS may still rule the roost. That is what the device is optimised for.
We use NDX2-DC1-nDAC but have toyed with idea of changing nDAC for NDS to remove a transformer from our rack. This would be using NDS as a DAC only.
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If you can search back to very old threads I did spend some time comparing the NDS/555 with NDAC/555 powered by NDX… and in short both are very good but very different styles. The NDAC is more organic and earthy with a darker weightier character. The NDS has a lighter more resolving sound but feels less organic or analogue. I found NDAC greater for rock and electronic music, the NDS more suited to choral and classical… as well as more prominently vocal music… I personally preferred the NDAC/555 even if it didn’t come across as detailed when compared to the NDS.
I later found the ND555 is somewhere in the middle by combining the characteristic strengths of these two, albeit slightly leaning to the NDS character.
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Those old threads are why we haven’t gone for it!
Seems to be a bit like the NDX2 vs nDAC battle, i.e. we’d have to try both and decide which we like best. No guarantees and more hassle.
Still undecided. If we sold nDAC and Powerline it would almost be a zero cost change, but we are very very happy with current system so may give up fiddling 
I had NDAC + XPS and therefore understands well and agree. NDAC/555 not tested. NDS/555 lets me listen to more albums, explore more unknown fields.
I experience NDS losing connection from time to time using Audirvāna. I believe it conflicts on the upnp side when one use the naim app to control volume etc and then Audirvāna to say change album. It’s the only time I experience it loosing connection and says initialising. If I only use Audirvāna it plays without issues forever and same with say iradio. There are many settings in Audirvāna that change stability too.
I’ve used NDX2 as streamer into my NDS. It’s different. Better? Not so sure. I find NDS on it’s on sound more complete and more analogue. With the NDX2 streamer the NDS tilt more towards NDX2 in performance. So a matter of taste IMO.
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