Totally agree. When I’m listening at low levels it sounds louder than it is because it’s so clear I guess. I just get so involved with it. I think the volume pot is around 9 but it’s barely passed 7
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Well I did find out what part of my problem was over this weekend. I had a lot more time to listen at louder volumes and still felt that there was a lack of energy, transients, and color to the sound versus the Nova. At a little over 200 hours now I didn’t feel I should be hearing these things, especially since the Nova was so impressive relatively straight out of the box.
The Nova was so fantastic on bass, particularly “real” electric bass in that 40-60Hz area. So much so that I have added a lot of Marcus Miller, Vic Wooten, etc to my playlist over the past year, And this is an area where the SN3 seemed to be a lot less dynamic even at higher volumes. Just sounded SMALLER and less “in the room” than on the Nova.
I listened to a few songs I know really well yesterday and today at about 90-100dB+ and just was not happy. Marcus Miller - Higher Ground… the horns and organs on this song would just erupt like flames from the speakers with the Nova. The tight bass rattles your teeth and you can hear the tactile wound bass strings on the neck of the bass guitar. With the SN3, there seemed to be no excitement in the horns and organs,. The bass sounded so small and frequency range seemed compressed.
Another track - “US 41” from Tom Petty & The Heartbreaker’s Mojo album; starts out with a simple acoustic guitar strumming and Petty’s vocal is EQ’d in a “radio” effect. But then the whole band kicks in and it will just floor you, like a hammer swing out of nowhere… On the SN3, the acoustic guitar sounds fuller and more realistic but then when the bass, drums, guitars, and harmonica swing into the mix again sounding small and not exciting, almost like a grey veil over the mix versus what I’ve been used to.
Finally one song I know better than maybe any other song, “Standing on the Corner of the 3rd World” by Tears for Fears, a showcase for Pino Palladino’s fretless bass work, with runs and harmonics throughout the entire song - but also with tons of atmosphere, Fairlight samples, handclaps, chimes and Manu Katche doing some amazing percussion work from very distant brush work on the snare to explosive tom fills out of nowhere. All that detail seemed to be covered in a bit of a background haze, with Pino’s harmonics staying very 2 dimensional. At the end there is a massive bass riff that is doubled with a fuzzy synth bass that - on the Nova, which is the first time I ever heard this detail - is very subtle but changes the whole feel of that riff. The doubled synth bass was barely audible even at high volume level (close to 10 o’clock on the SN3 volume).
This has turned into a long post but the bottom line is that I went back to what was the ONLY thing different between the Nova and the NDX2/SN3 and that was the Transparent cabling. I was using the Transparent DIN cable between the NDX2 AND SN3. BUT I had also gotten some new Transparent Super speaker cables as part of the deal which were replacing my trusty Triode Wire Labs speaker cables.
Both the DIN cable and the Super speaker cables have these giant egg crate-sized network boxes on the cables, I believe to reduce noise. However I suspected that they may have been contributing to the dull energy and lack of spark and snap in the songs I knew very well.
So I replaced the Transparent DIN with the stock Naim DIN and swapped out the Triode Wire Lab cables and YES, there was the snap and crackle of transients of horns and organs and snare hits and the bite of the bass guitar back again, and the improvements of the SN3 over the Nova are now able to stand out much more clearly. I think the Transparent network stuff may have just been overkill on the Naim gear. Also the Triode Wire Labs speaker cables are an excellent match with my Volti Rivals (the owners of both companies work together on synergy between the cabling in the crossovers etc of the Volti speakers) so I think that a high current amp like the Naim is better matched with the TWL cables than the Transparent cables.
Anyway that’s my epic observation at 200 hours. Having returned to the TWL cables and stock Naim DIN I am much happier with the sound, that grey miasma is gone for the most part. There are still some areas of the NDX2/SN3 I would like to see continued improvement on over the next few weeks of break-in. But I am a lot more confident now than I was 48 hours ago, when I was at a point where I just didn’t really feel like listening much because of the above stated issues.
So onward and upward.
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WOW! I’m so happy the swap has helped you. Let me know the next thing to replace (since I’ve gone down this road).
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Definitely try some NAC A5 with the SN3 from your dealer on a home lone. This will give you what you’re missing i suspect, that final bit of icing on the cake as it were.
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Very dynamic song BTW that one from Tears for fears. No problem at all hearing all that glorious detail at a fairly low volume (around 7:30-8). Love how that drum brush stroke is distant in the soundstage.
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I would suggest that with a Naim system, you should always start out using the supplied cables that are included in the box, and some Naim speaker cables. They may not look exotic or sexy, but they have been chosen because they will allow the system to work as Naim intended. By all means experiment with alternative cables if you feel the urge, but then you will have a benchmark against which to compare them. This is particularly important with speaker cables for the reasons explained here:
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I moved from a Nova to SN3/HC/NDX2/XPS very good sound and significant improvement in SQ.
Have now upgraded to 282/300dr/Supercap.
I think you’ll lose as much money adding a 250 to a Nova as going for an SN3 because the upgrade to a 250 isn’t, to my ears, that much better than the SN3 so you’ll lose as much on the 250 as the SN3 route as you’ll only be happy with the 300dr.
One of the best upgrades I’ve made is using WH Morgana and phantom cables.
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I will look into seeing if there are ways to get the WH cables in the US. I did go for the SN3 vs adding the 250 to the Nova as building out/upgrade path for separates was far more than I’d ever be able/willing to spend (here in the US your system including the NDX 2 is nearly $40,000). I’m in a little over $12K with this system but thanks to selling/trading up from the Novas there was no cash out of pocket for the upgrade. My last big expense on the system will likely be HiCap/XPS DR at some point down the road.
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Your posts nail it every time. Exactly same experiences as I had. Not the cabling but how you describe the sound and what is / was missing.
Keep us posted please on your journey and how the sq develops when you have more hours on the SN.
I have the witchhat phantoms which certainly helped to put more energy into the sound but still it kept having a boring midbass it seems. I removed the Gaia III feet from my speakers which seemed to help a bit too. I put back the Nova now and it just seems more musical and punchier than the Supernait 3. Also my XS3 seems to produce better punch and energy than the SN.
Putting the SN on the floor instead of cabinet also made it sound better. Still experimenting with things in the hope to find that magical click where everything snaps into order. Maybe a WitchHat Morgana DIN cable will solve things. Hope to be able to try this in the near future.
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Thanks… I am going to just be quiet and listen for the next few weeks. I have seen the improvement with the removal of the Transparent loom, and I may keep my eyes open for some NAC A5 speaker cable (there are a couple listings on Audiogon right now). I’m just concerned that to really see the step up in overall fidelity from the Nova to the SN3, there has to be a higher overall volume with the SN3 to allow the music to come forward the way it does with the Nova. There ARE things it does better at any volume - namely a bigger space in the mix, the ability to hear “around” a lead vocal (the ambience from behind the voice) and reverb… there is a more forward sound to the outer edges of the soundstage as well. But I was expecting just “more” of the Nova - a bigger, better Nova - by going to the SN3 and it does seem that the overall character of the sound is inherently different between the two.
Looking down the road, I’m apprehensive about having to experiment further with another $8,000 in power supplies between the XPS & HCDR in hopes of getting the sound I want, versus just “more” of the SN3. I’m not ready to cut my losses at this point, I do want to give it a fair shake. But I do wish I had held onto ONE of the Novas, haha.
Good idea. I’d hold off on Power supplies for now as well. One inexpensive thing you can try (you may have already) is to also run the stock power cables instead of the Transparent ones.
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If the SN eventually isn’t bringing what you are looking for then I suggest you try a XS3 with your NDX2. I found that the XS3 with my ND5XS2 was already an improvement over the Nova with more controlled bass. With a ndx2 it will probably be even better.
This is an interesting discussion, as I went from a Nova (which I still have in my second system) to a SN2 (about a month before the SN3 came out). It’s been a good move for me, and the SN2 is a big step up from the Nova, but with a similar presentation and generally more punch, cohesion, soundstage and detail. There has been quite a bit said about the SN3 being a bit more polite and refined over the SN2 - with the SN2 being known for that visceral nature. A bit like how the 252 is compared with the 282.
It’s interesting how a more refined presentation does not necessarily mean a more enjoyable presentation in any given system and room.
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There is no way i would describe a SN3 as polite and refined. Compared to my NAIT XS 2 it’s a much more ‘up for it’ beast. The newer amps are faster with a bit more harmonic distortion, less smooth and less mechanical sounding. Even in all the press reviews they describe the newer NAITs as more feisty and open. A bit like the NAIT 3 of old. I’m finding some of the opinions here at odds with my own findings…
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To be fair, I haven’t heard the SN3 and would quite happily have one 
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Keep in mind the only thing I have to compare the SN3 to is my Nova. So I cannot make any conclusions or observations as to how it sounds vs an XS 2 or XS 3 or SN 2 or 250DR, etc. I am solely comparing in this thread to my expectations moving from the Nova to the SN 3.
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Speaking from recent experience I think the OP will be better served to let his new equipment run-in a little bit more, but also use the stock Naim cables as a baseline. I don’t want to speak ill of his current cabling just try the stock first then decide where to go from there. Just my opinion of course.
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To be fair i only use Naim cabling so can’t comment beyond those. One thing i will say is that the minute i installed my SN3 in place of my NAIT XS 2 the music really came out of the speakers by comparison. The presentation is more upfront, wider and deeper with a bit more grit to it, but in a good way. I always found my NAIT XS 2 a little dark, smooth and refined and needed waking up with a Vodka Ethernet cable, when streaming. I was always yearning for a little bit more zest, no so with the SN3. Ever.
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No worries @Stephen_Tate. I had what you Brits call a “full loom” of the cabling that the OP has. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but he’s slowly finding what I did it kind of sucks some of the verve out of the music IMHO. I could only replace it one piece at a time but the first “WOW” moment came when tried a Hi-Line. That’s the link that got me thinking maybe the stock cabling isn’t bad, which is contrary to most stock cable I’ve ever used. Naim synergy I suppose… Of course, my system, my ears etc…
Bottom line is I want to see the OP happy as we are with the SN3 combo.
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Any new findings or any update?
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