Well of course that’s fine and I’m glad you are enjoying your 222 and it’s gives you what you want. Not heard the 222 but it must be pretty dam good and close to the 333 in sound quality as the ndx2 is not embarrassed by the 333 in my opinion. Different yes, better possibly yes but depending what you are looking for.
Yeah, the NDX2 is a good player but I prefer the NDS, it’s a shame it is on the legacy platform. I prefer the 222 to the NDX2 for the reasons you cite, and with the 555 it’s no contest.
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Bit of a generalisation… it really depends on many others factors, recording quality, system setup, room size etc.
I’ve used my NDX2 now with additional PSU and more recently as a transport with other DACs.
My main system is near field listening and with many quality live recordings I feel I’m there, in the moment.
After hearing the 333 at a recent dealer demo I’m not convinced it’s worth the upgrade.
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It’s not a generalization it’s a comparison I’ve made through my own experience like anyone else. Congrats you’ve convinced yourself that’s all that matters. I wasn’t convinced with the NDX2 but I’ve found happiness with the NC.
Well, as I’ve said, only with the NDX2 as a transport.
I’m not a fan of the the inbuilt NDX2 DAC, and not convinced the 333 DAC is an improvement either.
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Seems like a waste to me but to each their own as they say.
So curious, in your view, how is the inbuilt 333 DAC an improvement on the NDX2 DAC? (& despite the 333 having a lower spec 1791 chip)
I genuinely thinl the dac chip is a tiny part of the equation, especially if you bypass its filtering like naim do. My Nyquist uses a Sabre Dac, which I have hated the sound of whenever I have heard it but it sounds amazing in the Nyquist. I guess the output stage and filters make more of a difference.
Not saying that applies to the 333 as I have not heard it!
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This has been explained many times here by Steve (do a search), focusing on dac specs alone is a distraction that disregards the overall employment of the dac and surrounding components that impact overall sound. It sounds like you’re just looking to check a box that allows you to disregard what you hear.
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The NDX2 is a great source, and it’s can convey a live I’m there performance in the right system and set up with quality recordings it’s effectively was Naims midrange player and only realised 5 odd years ago. Fitted with a 555ps it’s a 13k source so it’s no light weight. Regardless of DAC technology used in the latest streamer I do think there are clear and obvious differences between the two units. I have tried the NDX2 as a transport only also with a chord Dave…was good great bass but lost something in return so I didn’t gel with it. I’ve recently had the ND555 on demo in its place and a DCS Apex device and although both were certainly better in there own different ways neither were life changing the difference was incremental on both devices. The law of diminishing returns sets in and it’s upto the individual to decide if it’s worth it for them. Did I miss them when removed and using the ndx2…no not really. In the end the upgrade i went for was a shunyana Everest power distribution which easily gave a bigger lift in overall sound quality then any of the above mentioned sources.
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I’d have to do a proper home demo to compare the two (333 & NDX2) on my system to do a fair comparison of course.
With ND555s appearing on the used market for around £2K more than a new 333 that is also a tempting (& probably better) option.
Enjoy your 333.
The NDX2 is a good player but it’s no NDS and takes too many boxes and $ to sound good and after all that you’re still on the OC platform. For me it’d take 5 boxes to get to the level of 222/555/250NC which is why I passed on it years ago. Fewer boxes and more SQ is a big selling point for me.
Of course, a home demo will tell you what you need to know. I agree, at current discounting OC products are an improved value proposition for those who prefer the OC sound. And I don’t own a 333, haven’t decided which route I’m going yet but it’s likely to be 350s first b/c the 222/555 is already pretty great.
Sorry your missing the point. I’ve not heard a NDS so I can’t comment on that player. From your comment my 10 box old classic system is effectively slumming it some how…sorry but I don’t think so. I don’t understand why some people on this forum feel the need to bash other people systems. Has the NS333 transformed my system no it hasn’t but if you read my post I wasn’t bashing it at all in fact the opposite just because I mentioned the NDX2 in my system has more weight it’s a problem because of course the new kit is so good and that can’t be the case I put forward a subjective veiw which I thought would be of interest to others on this forum considering the move and they may come up with a completely different veiw to me, that’s fine but I won’t start questioning there opinion because that’s all it is. Maybe I should sell off my system and aim for a NS222 because by all accounts is so dam good there’s no need to move up. There’s a lot more to a system than just the source NC chord, DCS among other brands and ive proven that to myself with the sources I’ve tried and evaluated. I’ve have listened extensively to the full NC 300 system twice at different dealers once with large dynaudio speakers and it sounded average and once with focals and it sounded very good, point is environment,speakers and setup make massive differences to the sound of a system. after 35 years of putting systems together and investing the time and money to get to the level im at now one thing I’ve learned is no one is wrong if it sounds good to you and your happy with it then great enjoy the journey.
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I haven’t missed any point, you have your preferences and I have mine. I wasn’t convinced by the NDX2 and you are. Big deal, I’m happy to have a Naim system I can enjoy again. And I assume you’re enjoying your system. We’re good.
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I was trying to make the same point about the NSS333. Lots of information that gel’d into great musicality. I find myself getting more involved with each track that I listen to from the spect of just enjoying the music rather than thinking ‘wow this sounds great’.
One of the downsides of streaming from Qobuz is the variety of material available. It is easy to keep jumping and trying the next album then jumping to something else. However, I now find myself picking an album and playing it right through or lining up 2 or 3 albums in the queue and listening all the way through. I am so focussed on the content that I stop thinking about the sound quality.
I have never been too enamoured with double basses until the 300 series. Now they are so tuneful and engaging rather than just ‘part of the sound’.
That is the testament of a good system - enjoying the music! I love my 300 series, others get the same from OC, 500, statement and uniti, Nova etc. It doesn’t matter what the system is rather the enjoyment gained. We all have our system preferences as we do our tastes in music. Probably difficult to find 2 people with the exact same views - different speakers, environments, ears etc. etc. we are all correct!
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Completely agree. We all have our own version of our perfect system and sound. In regards to the original post on the two units and there differences I think we agree that they sound very different and have there own sound signature’s the thing is I am actually impressed by the Ns333 it is above the NDX2 in terms of sound quality in my system and it maybe an option going forward, but it’s not a life changing difference as were none of the options I tried they were all incrementally better as they should considering there cost but that doesn’t make the NDX2 a bad source all of a sudden and I’m sure many are very happy with it as am I.
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Yes the key considerations are power supply, master clock stability, DSP algorithms and functions through the Analog Devices SHARC processor (for digital low pass filtering, over sampling and reconstruction… and these have been consistent across the since the Naim DAC … not familiar if still the case with the new products), the DAC itself (again uses the external SHARC not the inbuilt DAC chip DSP), the converted analogue current to voltage converter (super critical), the analogue low pass filtering and analogue output stage… along with managing physicals and EM interference…
So there are many aspects to a DAC, the converter chips themselves are just one small part of the machine.
A streamer with digital output uses key components too, such as the Analog Devices SHARC processor functions, master clock stability, powersupply and ground plane stability, physical and EM management. In certain Naim streamers one controls the SHARC for analogue or digital output, so the performance is suitably for optimised for either… rather than compromised for both.
My subjective bit… I really value the NDX2 as a digital streamer… however for my tastes its analogue output is good, but for me it doesn’t sound sufficiently tonally transparent, detailed and insightful, it’s simply not designed to provide that level of performance… in short alas it doesn’t make the hairs stand on the back of my neck on certain recordings … hence why I use it to drive an external DAC which does do that… however NDX2 is very good for its intended performance level.
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Many users report that the EE8 really improved sound quality when they added a good LPSU.
What do you think might cause that in electrical terms?
Other than the included power supply may be sub standard such that its not effectively providing high frequency noise rejection that is otherwise coupling into everything it’s hard to see without looking more closely.
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