New firmware update

Careful nbpf. This borders on conspiracy theory. I think that if Clare says it’s a nonsense then we can respectfully take it that she knows the facts here.

6 Likes

My post has nothing to do with any conspiracy theory.

As a matter of fact, no matter how careful quality control is, small hardware differences (a defect batch, a change in the production flow, in component tolerences, etc.) can never be excluded with certainty.

Also, it is clear that different devices operate in different, user-specific environments, networks, etc.

By contrast, the software running on the devices can be assumed to be the same with virtually 100% probability.

Thus, hardware differences or different environments are the most likely causes for the freezing/reboot issue that some users are experiencing.

1 Like

The software may be the same but how users use the software is immensely different in terms of the events themselves, sequence of events and timing.

Right, that what I meant with “operate in different environments”.

It is in fact quite easy (or better, it would be quite easy under normal public health conditions) to test whether the issue is more likely to be due to hardware differences or to differences in the environment: just have a user who regularly experiences freeze/reboot events swap her/his device with a user who never had any problem. Of course, the two devices would have to run the same firmware version.

When I got my Star it was replaced with a completely different unit due to the issues I was suffering and all the issues happened exactly the same on the second unit.

What is happening here is almost certainly software.

Hardware causing issues with software because of the actual hardware is to be considered defective and Naim won’t be trying to fix that via firmware. If the hardware functional specification changed Naim would be aware of this and wont be needing to go to Beta testers to find out that it happened.

Yes, the test that you have done is an indication that the issues are likely to be caused by a software error.

Has the second unit been tested not to suffer from any freeze/reboot issues in a different environment?

This would provide a much stronger evidence in favor of your conjecture.

Out of curiosity: have you tried to run some systematic tests on your unit? If the freeze/reboot events are triggered by certain sequences of operations or events, it should be possible to observe a difference in the frequency of the freeze/reboot events by selectively switching on/off certain system components and services.

Anyway, it’s a very interesting problem. I like testing software and I am looking forward to see what will come out at the end of this story!

I am personally from the school of thought that the burden of proof falls on the person disputing the facts :wink: For me the behaviour points towards software issues and Naim officially declared the “different-hardware” postulate to be fake :man_shrugging:

There is nothing that needs to be proved here and I have actually not disputed any fact or postulated any theory.

What I have done is to point at logical explanations for the freeze and reboot events that have been observed. Not by me, by the way: my interest in explanations for the freeze/reboot events is purely academical.

I agree that your test suggests that a likely explanation for the freeze/reboot events is a software error.

Still, when reasoning about run-time errors, it is often non a good idea to exclude a priori explanations that seem unlikely but that still are logically possible.

This is particularly true after a number of attempts at fixing the misbehavior by excluding such explanations have failed.

Well, Naim will put their money where their mouth is, when the firmware is released.

If it fixes our problems fantastic. If not, then mine is being swapped out. And if the new one subsequently just works, that points towards hardware.

We will see.

1 Like

I just had a new problem last night on my NDX2. I was playing from Upnp and pressed on a song to play the rest of the album. Nothing happened. I’m sure I pressed the song. Opened the queue and there were all the songs. It wasn’t paused but just stuck at 0:03 seconds. I cleared the queue and pressed the song again. Everything played fine from then on.

Is this another manifestation of the stutter reboot problem or something new? This is the first time this has happened.

Just to add, I’m still having the same reboot issues with my atom that I posted about months ago, and that 3.5.1 never fixed.

I left the house today and when I came back hours later, my atom was sat there doing its on/off reboot. I highly doubt that can be very good for the hardware, the power supply especially? Can anyone more knowledgeable comment? Am I likely to have shortened the life of any components?

Also, it could well be a fire risk. A PSU constantly switching on and off for what could be days is dangerous in my opinion.

I’m not happy at all.

This sounds like a hardware failure to me. I would consider sending the unit in for repair. I agree with you that this does sound like a dangerous situation.

Any news on the actual firmware update, so we can close this thread forever?

1 Like

Yes I’d like to know too. Just had a random reboot on my NDX2, it’s the first in a while I think the last time it happened was three weeks ago.

We have been told by Naim it was “soon”. Having reported this a number of weeks ago, I was told the new improved firmware was " the end of the week".
I get these things need testing etc. But that is what informs the " when".
Feels like we will get it, when we get it.
If it is to be the end of the year, just tell us. Please.

I take it you want a version that works better? This takes time and should not be rushed. We now have more of a wider net of users in the beta programme and this is showing things that likely would have been missed before and picked up in production release which nobody wants. Nobody is sat around twiddling thumbs, they are working hard to sort out these issues as best they can with the resources they have. I suggest you sign up for the beta programme so you have more of an idea of the process involved and why it takes time

3 Likes

Last I heard there was an issue that cropped up late on in Beta testing so they’ve moved to a newer release to take that issue into account and it’s currently undergoing Beta testing.

Thanks. Usefully reply. Sounds like this is proving harder to fix than we thought.

Not suggesting they are not working hard, just fancied an update.
After all, it was Naim that told me it was about a week away.
Whats involved in the beta testing programme?

1 Like

Do you mean, how is it performed? Who’s involved? Or what does it need to get into it?