New Naim & Focal what?

I do not disagree. Marketing is of course important, but so are many other things. A good quality product will always sell and does not necessarily need an excessive marketing campaign

Yes agree…

So sorry to be pedantic and commenting on something important…

Marketing is not just advertising :flushed:

You can use phrases like marketing communications, consumer communications, advertising, messaging, integrated communications, campaigns.

However, Marketing is so much more :+1:
Usually considered a way of thinking, an approach to doing business or organising a firm operations, even a business philosophy …

For example, Kotler defines Marketing as follows : “The organization’s marketing task is to determine the needs, wants and interests of target markets and to achieve the desired results more effectively and efficiently than competitors, in a way that preserves or enhances the consumer’s or society’s well-being.”

Sorry again for getting on my soap box.

KR
R

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Nothing wrong with that box…pls shout louder!

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It was a really nice design, but if it was made from a smoked glass, maybe it would not have been so prone to scratching.

Currently AFAICT there’s no new app, it’s just the two separate ones accessed via a single icon, first you have to select which brands one to use, and from there on they’re nothing alike. I’m sure any, or at least some, new products will use one of the apps, but which half of it will depend on whether they’re Focal or Naim branded.

I doubt Naim will want to lose compatibility with their older products, same for Focal. Of course if the two could be properly integrated into something that’s actually a single app that would change. I’m sure that’s bound to happen at some point, but one can wonder if they would have bothered with last months marketing exercise if this was planned for early January.

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I’m not a specialist in advertising and marketing. I was only suggesting that a good product that customers are happy with, together with a wide and successful market presence is usually a good foundation and one of the best ways of easing advertising/marketing and keeping the competition in it’s place. Of course in a fast moving world with tremendous competition, relying on heritage will eventually fail unless you have managed to kill all the competition. I think customers are not so daft and will eventually see the effects of any taking advantage and “messages” sent from companies. At least these are aspects that I perceive in the area where I work

First, please be assured my earlier post was not singling out any specific forum user. It was a broader comment to address a common misconception that advertising is Marketing. (Several comments had been made, which prompted my own post).

You own comments - in reply - are well made.

Also, The use of “heritage” is an interesting topic in business.

There are lots of firms that focus on heritage.

For example : John Smedley (knitwear) ; Royal Crown Derby (tableware) ; Grenson (shoes). All British heritage brands that have been doing basically the same thing, for 100+ years.

In fact, heritage forms a central part of their messaging - in a crowded market segment - where their heritage is used as a point of differentiation.

Some British products - particularly in international markets - dwell on their (long) heritage. In the recent years British heritage has become synonymous with high quality.

Maybe in Naim’s case, heritage is probably used to signal such values as : longevity ; (consistent) quality ; (continuous) improvement ; (constant) innovation, etc, they can point to their past to provide physical evidence of these and many other attributes valued by consumers.

All values that are appreciated by their market segments and consumers.

Lastly, completely agree about firms resting on their laurels, maybe leading to “taking advantage”. There lies peril for any firms future success.

Good Marketing involves a continuous process of “listening” to all your markets and customers and improving in an incremental way.

Which was my wider point.

KR
R

p.s. apologies for topic drift.
Having reiterated my wider point. I’ll go quiet now. Thanks in advance to all for humouring me.

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I don’t see the discussion as a thread drift and quite relevant points to the topic in question, but for sure a very complex problem that will not be solved here

If only it could have been a rekindling of the Naim relationship with Linn rather than Focal.

Linn analogue and digital engineering, Naim amplification engineering…

Oh well :flushed:

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Whatever “it” is or could/might be is there actually a launch date?

Doing business with Linn will also be difficult soon enough at this rate

Personally, i find Naim too far away from its loyal customers. Just MO, maybe I’m wrong. But they should certainly pay closer attention to this site.

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I would expect that the Focal-Naim Bean Counters care mostly about the New Customers - recent & future. Loyalty does not necessarily help profits.

(I might be considered ‘loyal’ but have not bough a new Naim item since I think 2001…?)

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Agree, the the market of people who can afford to buy the next new thing without worrying about long term ownership is big enough to support Naim. The rest of us buy used. I am sure the used market helps encourage new purchases but I’m not sure it is a major concern to Naim.

My old boss always use to say “Marketing is a tax you make your customers pay for when the product isn’t good enough to sell itself!”

My sense is Naim don’t need a huge marketing campaign, those that know, know and share organically and the reviews and dealer promotions do the job of tempting new customers to Naim.

Gary

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Makes me wonder if there are any non Naim owners who went straight to a 552/500 setup?

I have no insights into what Naim are planning either but as a customer for 35 years I’m certainly very keen to see what they have up their sleeve!

The gap in the market I think nobody is addressing is for a high quality streamer capable of connecting into a multichannel A/V system to deliver Tidal Atmos to a multi-speaker array. Atmos is such a gamechanger for both music and movies in the home that replayed properly it is better than any DVD-Audio or SACD music surround mix and crucially does not require the purchase of new discs like they did. Adoption is just a Tidal or Apple subscription away which means I think it is going to become ubiquitious. Adoption of Atmos for studio mastering has already happened, you can already hear lots of old artist recordings (the Beatles, Elton John, Pink Floyd) in Atmos and a high percentage of new contemporary recordings are already mixed and mastered in Atmos too.

With that in mind personally I really hope that Naim have this in mind for any new streamer, either out of the box or as a future upgrade via software update. Having heard Atmos mixes of various artists at PMC’s London studios in the summer I was blown away by the instrumental separation possible in an Atmos mix enabling everything to be heard far more clearly than ever. Stereo even at the highest levels is only ever an approximation of what it feels like to sit in a theatre with the Glen Miller band, Atmos puts you right there with the whole band ranged in front of you and the whole acoustic space around you. I knew the second I heard it just sounded right and I wanted that in my life. It remains the very best sound I have ever heard and in my view it simply is the future of high end audio.

The audio brands that can see this coming down the pipeline are those most closely integrated into the studio/professional environment - ATC, PMC and the like plus those who make headphones and soundbars and see it as a marketing tool. The other brands that recognise its importance are those associated with the home theatre arena - Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, Panasonic because they are already building it into their receivers. So far the high end hi-fi brands seem blind to the opportunity which is simply that this is the single biggest leap in high end audio reproduction since the invention of digital recording and playback. They absolutely should be there in that space and they need to be.

The first respected audio brand that delivers a high quality streamer/DAC capable of feeding Atmos via HDMI is going to have a runaway hit on their hands. I hope it’s Naim because I can’t see me wanting to drop £5k on a streamer to replace my NDX if it can’t embrace the highest quality audio delivery mechanism ever invented.

When you hear music done properly, you just know - it’s as simple as that.

As for marketing, personally I feel Naim has a very strong brand with a very strong halo associated with it and a good dose of heritage too. They have arrived at this position because they build class leading products and understand how to market and position them. I have little doubt they will have a very successful launch of whatever they have up their sleeve and they won’t need billboards everywhere to sell it.

Jonathan

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Ah, my dream system, minus an LP12, from 1987.

RIchard

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I need to revisit Atmos. When it was first announced for Apple Music I gave it a try and I left quite disappointed. There was something off about the mixes. Too much separation, I guess. I understand that the industry has since dialled it back a little and it is better. I haven’t tried since… once bitten 'n stuff.

My New Year’s resolution I guess. It’s doable, unlike most of them :wink:

Thanks for this comment btw. Very interesting.

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