New Naim system got, now do I change my speakers?

Thanks Gary, great advice and will do.

Is this a wind up?

The countless threads and talk about the Fraim and its acoustic properties.
The amount of de-coupling through each section and the specific use of pilkington glass and steel balls and cups again selected specifically for their acoustic properties…
It’s not recommended constantly because it sounds the same as everything else.

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Not a wind up at all.

Discussion about ball bearings, spikes and glass isn’t the same as quantifying exactly why a Fraim works vs another isolated support system or DIY variant using the same materials or design concepts.

You mention the amount of decoupling. How much is that exactly? Is there a numerical value so that one can compare against another product?

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Can you quantify everything else within Hifi? I couldn’t give a monkeys, as to the absolute specifics but reckon Naim may have a white paper if you asked them. I have always gone by my ears…

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You don’t need numerical values. All you need is a pair of ears. I’ve tried enough stands over the years to be be able to say that a decent stand - I didn’t actually specify Fraim - would be better than that table. The OP asked for ideas so that’s what I provided, as have others. Please don’t take this down an objective / subjective argument. It’s been done to death, is not remotely useful, is incredibly tedious and helps the OP not one jot.

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Eddieaston, if you feel that something is missing with your PMC’s the best bet is to audition (at home) as many different speakers as you can until you find something you prefer? The speakers will make the biggest difference to the sound in your system over anything else.

Once your happy, you could then look at the support, positioning, mains etc. You need to be objective with yourself about what it is you want, and the min/max regret in order to achieve it. As you can see in the above posts, the opinion is somewhat divided on the merits of certain levels of system building.

Ultimately it’s all objective / subjective, and the only ears that matter are yours?

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Probably the best advice so far

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My best advise is to let your system break it. You stated it was new so for it to be at its best it’s needs time to settle in. How long? Some others on here can answer that much better than me. My 250 took 100-200 hours, my 500 series took twice that long. Then you can decide what you want to upgrade.

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Thanks and agreed.

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Of course I can’t quantify everything but I’m not claiming that a console table can be written off sonically because it’s not a Fraim.

You clearly don’t give a monkeys, which is absolutely fine. However, you’re the one who quoted me, claiming I’m on a wind up. You are now saying that you don’t actually know and go by your ears. So what was it I said that was so controversial?

Sounds like we’re in agreement as apart from info about materials/features, it’s difficult to quantify what makes the Fraim unique.

Lots of stands use the same design features as a Fraim. The industry is littered with them. Not all work well with Naim equipment but some may work as well. Possibly some better.

Like a £20 IKEA table/LP12 it could could be amazing, or not :joy:

My point is, by eye, it’s pretty impossible to conclude much about the merits, or otherwise, of a console table.

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I did genuinely think it was a wind up.

I said I couldn’t give a monkeys about the absolute specifics.
What I do know is if you have spent a substantial sum of money on a high quality Hifi system that’s sole purpose is for its sonic performance, that you can bring into ones home then starting from the ground up, getting the fundamentals right with a stand/rack that has been designed solely for the purpose of sound quality is the best place to start.
I wouldn’t build a house without the correct foundations.
I did state ideally a Fraim, that suggestion was open to alternatives but yes a dedicated rack.
Once you have heard what it brings you can understand like many things Naim, why it’s been around unchanged for so long.

Popeye

Apologies for assuming that people were suggesting a Fraim.

I’ve quoted from your original post as you’re suggesting it’s tedious for questioning the basis behind completely writing off a console table.

I accept that a dedicated stand may sound better but ‘may’ could be 0% or 100% as there’s really no way of knowing.

Personally I think it looks like a lovely table so even if a stand yielded an improvement, I’d probably not bother unless it was so significant that I couldn’t unhear the difference.

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The magic about proper stands is that every box gets an upgrade at once. It’s something like compound interest.

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Personally I think Naim and PMC are a great match, but then I would say that, I have a Nait XS2 and Twenty23’s.

That’s good to know.

Well, an interesting first post.

Thanks for all the responses, albeit most of which weren’t about speakers😂.

My conclusion, enjoy the System as is for a while. Listen to the music and don’t hop on that journey of perfection. Demo speakers, they might make the biggest difference to my system, then decide on electricity supply, then stand.

Thanks all.

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No worries Eddieaston. We’re just trying to help you avoid mistakes/detours along your journey and hopefully some angst.

I had a pair of PMC 20.23 at the end of a 250DR, and really enjoyed the combination. Although when the upgrade itch inevitably comes, don’t restrict yourself to just Focals - which seem to attract polarizing views on this forum

I would say at the very least try and find a more suitable lication for the hicap. If you can move the console table slightly so the speaker is pulled away from the corner (as HH says) I’m sure that would help. IF you can get a dedicated mains this will alsoake a great improvement. I’m sure your speakers and system sound great and I wouldn’t rush to change any of the components unless there is something that you really don’t like about the speakers. Merry Christmas :mrs_claus:

If you do decide you’d like better speakers, do bear in mind that because they affect the character of the sound so much, they are a very personal choice. What one person loves another may dislike and vice versa, so any suggestions have to be taken with that in mind - and do make sure you audition for yourself, with your amp.

Of all the speakers I’ve heard I’ve found that transmission lines give the best sounding bass. If that holds true for you then you might find the best improvement looking at other transmission line speskers such as higher models from PMC (the Fact 12 and MB2 are particularly good, but I’ve no idea how they’d perform with your amp). Kerr Acoustics or Castle are other current transmission line manufacturers, though I haven’t heard any of theirs so no idea what they are like other than the opinion of reviewers.

Personally unless budget is limitless I’d only look secondhand or ex-dem to maximise buying power.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can better isolate the hicap From the XPS? Does anyone know of a isolating platform to sit over the XPS almost as a bridge that then allows the hicap to be isolated above?. For the moment in time I’m thinking of doing this before I change the table for a fraim.

Thanks.