Optimal SQ config for Innuos Zenith/Statement with ND555 and Roon (or not)

I assume that you’re planning for “life after UnitiServe.” Many of us are living that life!

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I’m watching this thread too. With the time I have to devote to hi fi, and funds, I have many other priorities. Roon Nuc to Ansuz Switch to ND555 all over ethernet sounds great right now. And assuming there’s room for improvement I’d wait for all this stuff I’m reading here to be sorted out. I’m not inclined to beta test software beyond being a bona fide beta tester for Naim.

While I think about the UnitiServe’s health, it continues to serve just fine.

It will die on me when I least expect!

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(Just have a good backup. Did you convert the rips to flac already? If so the migration isn’t too painful. If not it’ll be really painful I’m afraid.

If you migrate to Roon, once Roon identifies the album it’ll substitute (if you want) its own metadata, so lack thereof isn’t much of an issue. I have no idea what Roon would do with a native UServe rip, that is, if it could identify it at all.)

Yep, have converted all the previously WAV files on the US to Flac (and the US transcodes to WAV on the fly) and have those same Flac files backed up on my QNAP NAS.

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I go between significant upgrade to Uniti Core to something like Statement or Antipodes products, or continue with more Qobuz. Interested to see what you do.

Yes, I was previously thinking about a Melco server but the Innuos Statement has grabbed my attention, particularly as it has the gubbins of the excellent PhoenixNET switch included.

Qobuz is great for discovery and to play some different stuff but I still prefer the SQ from files served locally from my US. So I still want the option of a great server in my system when the US goes phutt.

I was looking at it……but thought with the Core and Phoenix net that it was probably my best compromise.

So you have a significant ‘home music digital library’ to preserve?

I have ~1800 albums on mine and along the way (as it grew) moved it from UServe to nas to Roon NUC. I’m pretty happy where it is. I’m still not a Qobuz subscriber; I will be when I’m in a mode to want to listen to a bunch of new music (that I don’t own). If I were starting over today I’d just do Qobuz. But probably still via Roon as I like the interface.

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About 2000 albums……at the moment sticking with buying essential albums……Qobuz is the nain source.

BTW, I have been playing around with how I have connected up my Cisco 2960 and etherREGEN switches, similar to the way MichaelB has changed his connection of the PN and Statement.

I now have all non main audio stuff (QNAP, Qb, Sky Q, MacBook) connected to the 2960 and the US and ND555 connected to the etherREGEN, with both switches connected individually to the BT Home Hub.

Wasn’t really expecting much but flippin’ heck this arrangement is soooo better. Better clarity, separation and resolution - you know the hifi stuff. But everything sounds more coherent and refined - the musicality stuff.

So I firmly believe the way we hook up our LANs matters. I did also take the opportunity to tidy up my cables in my LAN gear wardrobe (power and Ethernet cables to US, QNAP, BT router, Cisco 2960 and etherREGEN). This may have also had an effect.

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@NigelB @northpole

Sorry, this MIchaelb geezer has been sowing a lot of confusion. If you read through this thread, you’ll see I have been pretty much learning on my feet - sometimes two steps forwards and one back…

There are three important things I didn’t realise (aside from the Roon implementation options on Innuos that CrystalGypsy explained to me).

The first is that the Innuos gear takes a while to warm up and come on song, just like Naim gear.

The second is that the products with oven controlled crystal oscillators (OXCOs) - the Statement and PhoenixNet - take a really long time time to warm up, stabilise and really come on song. Nuno - Mr Innuos - reckons as much as a week. So, faffing around with them, moving them about, switching them on and off etc. is simply counterproductive. Thankfully Innuos and Audio-T have been very generous on the time front. God knows, I’ve needed it!

The third is that the implementation of the Ethernet port isolation, powering etc. on the PhoenixNet is a slightly later generation of what happens in the Statement. Innuos have not gone into detail of where - quite possibly because I didn’t ask. But at the very least the Statement has LEDs on the ports, while the PhoenixNet doesn’t. Also, the Statement has noisier Gigabit ports vs. the PhoenixNet’s 100 mbps ports.

Then there was simply the matter of having rather a lot of gear round at the same time and getting distracted by some of the Chord fans on the forum. The Chord stuff is good value for money and performs very nicely: lots of detail, clarity, good tone, low noise and dynamics, but a Naim ND555 with 2xPSUs it ain’t. But then it also costs quite a bit less. The instrumental textures and small shifts in emphasis whether in tone or timing that Naim manage to get, Chord doesn’t in my opinion. I’ve found the same with Linn streamers in the past and actually preferred the NDX and even to an extent 272 to the Klimax.

Anyway, once I’d stopped all the experiments where curiosity got my cat about the business of the Sense app and the output caching that it does to keep things quieter, I left the by now well warmed Statement sitting on its flight case on the floor, away from the Naim rack and moved the PhoenixNet well away both from it and from the Fraim shelf, where everything had been sitting on top of the NAP 500 power supply. And that was when the whole Innuos thing suddenly started to make sonic sense. A lot of this was, with hindsight, not simply that the PN was no longer sitting on top of either the 500 PS or the Zenith with its built in PS, but quite simply that I left it all alone to get on with things and that everything was by then nicely warmed up.

The Statement also seems to fine on its own works on top of the 500 PS and the PN on top of only the Statement (and therefore its head unit not the Zenith with built in PS). I did detect a slight deterioration moving it from the flight case back to the Fraim, but that could simply have been from moving it around even if it was still switched on. It’s certainly sounding very nice now. Both the Statement and PN are being powered from a a Sean Jacobs Powerblack power block, which is his (superior) equivalent of a Powerigel. They both perform better with this than the Powerigel or Powerlines.

So finally several things are clear:

My initial conclusions were erroneous - impressions while getting the hang of how this gear works and the various options it presents, some of which are a little confusing because they have not yet been implemented equally for Ethernet and USB outputs.

On the SQ front, and without going into detail of why, my findings have been, lowest to highest:

Naim Uniti Core
QNAP NAS
Nucleus+
Nucleus+ with with Sean Jacobs DC3+
Nucleus+ with 1 EtherRegen
Nucleus+ with 2 daisychained EtherRegens
Nucleus+ with Sean Jacobs DC3+ with 1 EtherRegen with Sean Jacobs DC3+
Nucleus+ with Sean Jacobs DC3+ with 2 EtherRegens with Sean Jacobs DC3+
Nucleus+ with PhoenixNet
Statement with Roon Core
Statement with UPNP and Naim App
Statement with Sense app and LMS workaround for Ethernet (buggy but not always, can stop replay or skip to next track or be fussy to start replay)
Statement with PN and UPNP and Naim App
Statement with Sense

The steps in SQ aren’t equal or always earthquakes but they’re never subtle either: always immediately apparent

Switching the Statement to offline mode also improves things further. But the great thing is that you have the choice. You can use Roon so as to enjoy Roon radio’s suggestions etc, but then switch to one of the other modes for critical listening.

I’ll write further about the varied pieces I used for the evaluations (from Bach to the Cocteau Twins) and the differences noted a little further down the line. Unfortunately the problems experienced with the Zenith 3 mean I can’t comment on how this fits into the picture and I have yet to hear from Innuos about whether I’ll be able to complete that part of the demo.

The PN makes a very nice improvement on the Statement, adding space, solidity, tone and texture while further lowering the good old noise floor. It makes for a more immersive and moving experience, but the Statement’s damn fine without it. I would feel a little silly buying both since some of the Ethernet bits in the S are being ignored in favour of the PN, so you’re paying for nothing there, but it does sound very, very good.

@northpole if you’re not happy with how your Statement sounds in UPNP mode with the latest updates, ask Innuos support if they could install the LMS workaround on your machine. They were not unhappy for me to mention this possibility. It is still buggy - less so if you don’t keep stopping it and jumping about between tracks to compare Sense to UPNP etc. as I have been doing so, but does sound better. It’s not night and day but a nice big step in clarity, silent backgrounds, detail and texture. Certainly give the PN an audition, too. There’s not doubt it’s the best switch I’ve heard to date.

@NigelB The Statement is fantastic. You can always get the PN later. I seem to recall you have an EtherRegen, don’t you? I can always tell you whether it makes any difference to the Statement in my system. I suspect you could jettison and sell it if you get a Statement. But I may be wrong in recollecting that you have one. The PN is some wonderful icing (and more) on the cake of the Statement, but you wouldn’t exactly be unhappy without it. Listening to the Bela Fleck, you’d be grinning like a loon: the bass is so wonderfully extended but also textured and controlled, while the banjo cuts through with crisp, detailed clarity when it arrives.

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Definitely - that’s exactly what I’m doing. Hopefully some of the above post add some clarity.

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Just read this, confirming my memory. Will give a listen to ER before Statement and no ER.

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It sounds worth with the ER inserted:

Router → PN → Statement
Statement → PN → ND555

has greater detail, instrumental texture, clarity and space than

Router → ER → PN → Statement
Statement → PN → ND555

Getting the PN out of the equation - God I miss that!

But the ER still doesn’t have a positive effect. Everything is slightly thinner and less textured, with a little less space and air. There’s not much in it, but it’s certainly better without the ER. So you could probably sell it and any power supply you may have bought for it with the Statement alone.

HTH

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That’s how I did things

If you’ve got the PhoenixNET in the final run, what does having a Statement bring to the party over other server solutions ?

I’m curious as to if you’d get additional gains by keeping just the PN local to the ND555 and moving the Statement away from the Hi-Fi kit.

FWIW Qobuz sounds good on the Sense app but it’s too buggy with the LMS for constant use and also sounds worse than the same album downloaded and played back via UPNP and the Naim app. It sounds fine via Roon with the Statement as Roon Core and a lot better than with the Nucleus+ as Roon Core.

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@NigelB , Innuos Statement and PhoenixNet are around 15k euros. For that amount of cash, would it be not better to upgrade to 500 dr second hand?
If you have ripped already all your cds, do you still need a cd ripper?
If not, you have the Melco N1zh2, which is specially optimised to work in UPNP mode with a direct connection to a streamer.
In my experience, the Melco N1zh2 is completely in another level vs the Unitserve I had before, from the first seconds.
In my system, The Melco and PhoenixNet are working in synergy, giving each 20% upgrade in sound, more apparently than PhoenixNet and Statement, where the PhoenixNet is more the icing of the cake.

If choosing the Innuos Statement route, I would probably not bought the PhoenixNet and kept the ER. And add a good linear ps to it.

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NigelB…you mentioned several times US…what`s the meaning please?