I’m hoping someone can help from their own experience. I currently have an Innuos PhoenixNet, Zenith 3 and Statement on extended home demo and would be grateful for any recommendations for optimal sound quality with a ND555 and 500 system. I am currently using mainly Roon via a Roon Nucleus+ so also need to consider the pros and cons of using the Innuos servers as endpoint or core and with Roon experimental mode or possibly without Roon at all.
Hi Michael, i currently have router>Etheregen switch>Phoenixnet switch>ND555. My Uniti Core is connected to the Etheregen, it sounded better away from all the amps and power supplies.
Thanks, Gazza. Interesting you have kept the EtherRegen in the mix. My Nucleus+ also sounds better away from the racks. The Innuos gubbins currently on the top shelf of my Fraim. power stack Where do you have the PhoenixNet: on or away from the Naim rack/s?
The ER was kept because due to room logistics i need 2 switches, inserting my old Cisco 2960 instead of the ER/plixir psu lost a little detail, not much, but you could hear it. The Phoenix net sits on a granite tile behind the fraim next to my musicworks G4 powerblock.
The question is about how using Roon, as endpoint or core, on the Nucleus or Innuos, in experimental mode or not?
I would try also with and without Nuceus, with Roon and without, with Naim app or Innuos sense.
I am already exhausted for Michael
As for the PhoenixNet, mine stays on my rack. Melco to Innuos and Nds to Melco by Ethernet direct connection. I tried both connected to the Innuos switch, but prefer still the Nds to Melco, strangely.
I can see only one member with Innuos Statement and Nd555. @northpole
Would be interesting if he could share his set up.
Unfortunately I have very little to share with you on this! I was very much looking forward to the recent Innuos innuOS 2.0 release which I thought might be an interesting step in the direction of making things easier for non techy folks like me. Severely disappointed to learn that it may be a wonderful development but not if you rely on the ethernet connection to naim boxes. This will have to wait until a future development. I have not bothered to try and see what the phoenixnet might bring to the party and I have no inclination to do so until they sort the innuOS system out for naim users. All in all I find the whole thing too much like an IT problem without my work’s dedicated IT helpdesk!
Slightly closer to the question posed - sorry for the mini-rant setting out my inadequacies - my set up is as some on here suggested:
router → ethergen → statement → nd555 → 552 → 500 → 802d3. I also have a nas drive feeding into the ethergen. At this time I’m feeding the 552 more often from the lp12 or cd555 - I feel I at least have an inkling as to what’s going on with these antiques!
I did wonder if the phoenixnet would benefit the statement or if the statement had enough clocking/ isolation stuff going on that it may be a case of splitting hairs with very marginal gains. When they have the innuOS sorted out for naim, I’ll show a bit more interest!
As far as I know the PhoenixNet is already incorporated in the Statement, nothing to be gained by adding this to your set up.
I don’t think it’s the case. But @Michaelb can respond, and say if adding the PhoenixNet in the mix adds something or not, vs the inbuilt switch of the Statement.
What I read, in the Innuos recent thread, is that you can use the Innuos sense app when the player is the Naim streamer and the server the Innuos. It’s something related to using LMS bridge.
Glasnaim or @CrystalGipsy can explain.
Michael finds , for now, that the Innuos Statement associated with the Naim streamer gives a sound which is « smooth and detailed with low noise floor but some lack of drive and instrumental texture. The switch is good though. Early days yet, however.«
Do you share that impressions ?
I have written to Innuos asking this question, so I’m fairly certain that the PhoenixNet functions are incorporated within the Innuos Phoenix Statement.
Hopefully. Not heard anything from Innuos yet, who I asked for advice. At the moment, I’m basically using the Statement as a Server/NAS as far as I can gather, which is far from taking advantage of its full potential, including the new operating system/interface, which looks quite nice. I’m using the Naim app at the moment and just doing some rough and ready comparisons of that and the various Roon modes for SQ. The Zenith 3 seems to have bricked during the Roon experimental mode update. Will try and sort that out today.
@northpole I’ll let you know what I find regarding the impact of the PhoenixNet on the Statement, Peter. At the moment I’m running BT Home Hub → ER → PN → Statement → ND555.
First straight comparison of ER vs PN gives the Phoenix the edge on soundstage, sense of solidity and clarity and sparkle. But as I wrote: early days yet.
The Statement also has an oven controlled clock (several actually0, but not the no-LED Ethernet sockets. In conversation with Innuos they claim it does effect an improvement with the Statement.
OK that’s interesting, I always viewed the Statement as a combination od the Zenith, PhoenixUSB, PhoenixNet plus additional power supplies and a few other improvements.
In terms of your original question, especially if you plan to continue with Roon, I don’t think the Statement would be the best solution in terms of functionality as it is let down by low processing power. You already have an excellent streamer in the ND555, out of all the Innuos kit you are considering I think the PhoenixNet is perhaps the one to add value to your set up.
I think of it that way too, which is why the claim is interesting. But then I have found 2xEtherRegen slightly better (more open and relaxed) than 1….
Well, a fair bit of faffing around todayn and yesterday, but certain things currently very clear.
Using the Innuos music servers in UPNP mode to the ND555, effectively as servers, is probably slightly better than NAS models I have used in the past and about on a par for SQ with using them as a Roon Core and Endpoint. Using the Innuos servers in Roon “Experimental Mode” sounds better still on my system, with greater clarity, dynamics and separation in particular. Stability in EM was fine on the Statement but not on the Zenith3, with dropouts after a freeze upon updating the Roon SW for EM, followed by an unresponsive unit at the moment - the Ethernet port LEDs flash but the unit can’t be found on the network. Waiting to see what Innuos support suggest.
A clear but not enormous difference between the Statement and Zenith with the PhoenixNet installed. I didn’t get a chance to try Zenith on its own before it bricked in Experimental Mode.
Keeping the Nucleus+ as the Core and having the Innuos Statement as endpoint connected to the ND555 definitely sounds better still, with improved clarity, dynamics and texture, improved further by setting it to Offline mode, but Nucleus+ direct through the PhoenixNet sounds better still.
For Peter @northpole the PN definitely makes a subtle improvement to the Statement in terms of solidity of presence, air and space, working better before the Statement and not after in the chain. You may find this worth a listen though it’s not night and day.
I think the problem for Naim streamer owners is that the Innuos servers’ strengths are simply not being exploited when connected by Ethernet. Users seem unanimous that innuOS sounds superior to Roon, so there is clearly more on offer if/when Innuos extends its function set and caching in particular to Ethernet. I’ll see what they come up with next week.
The PhoenixNet is tremendous - a considerable step up from double EtherRegen with Sean Jacobs DC3+ PSU, adding soundstage, definition, texture, space, dynamics and bass extension. Could find no advantage in keeping the EtherRegens in the mix.
That’s it for the time being - rushing for a very late lunch.
Thanks very much for the comprehensive update and hope you manage to get your Zenith back up and running again. I am assuming that the phoenixnet was used without the addition of the Sean Jacobs power supply, or is that another chapter in your potential faffing yet to come?!!
My overall interest will return when Innuos sort out the ethernet connection for naim users - hopefully in the not too distant future.
it’s true that the PheonixNet (as also the Pheonix USB reclocker) is already in the Statement, but I’m guessing that a PheonixNet before (or after if ethernet connection to the renderer) would bring another sonic advantage, such as cascading ERs or other switches with good clocks and LPSs.
as per @Michaelb 's response above
Yes most likely, that’s what @frenchrooster was saying earlier in the thread. I’m not disagreeing I was thinking of the cost, an Innuos Statement, ND555, 500 system, Roon Nucleus+ in addition to an Innuos PhoenixNet performing switch duties, that’s a lot of money !
Hence my suggestion that the Innuos PhoenixNet would add value to the system and that the Innuos Statement was perhaps unnecessary.
The PN has a built-in Sean Jacobs power supply so no faffing there
I believe there are some preliminary experimental options re Ethernet so will let you know if I am able to experiment with them…