Planned obsolescence

As I said that isn’t an issue for me. I don’t expect new features. I do expect bugfixes, and possibly other (usability) improvements. New features would be a nice bonus, but no more than that.

that’s fair, I agree

You possibly made a wise choice by focusing on the analogue side of things Herve, but I hope Naim have learned something from the development issues they faced with the first generation streamers and that the second generation have scope for more upgrades. My fingers are firmly crossed as I type this :see_no_evil:

I guess the 24/192 board that upgraded the first generation uniti which is also the base for the MuSo / Qb v1 was not a material enough upgrade vs the original uniti v1 platform. Bit of a half way, and whilst it definitely extended (as a modest cost upgrade) the lifespan of the uniti v1 generation, it was closer to end of life for the MuSo/Qb products… I believe the new generation (v2) MuSo ans separate streamers are on a consistent design, so one could assume the software upgrade potential is somewhat consistent… hopefully, as I also have a MuSo v2!.. :slight_smile:

Another thing that I was thinking about about trade in programs… if the manufacturer offers a trade-in program at a net cost to them, then it will end up increasing retail prices anyway… nobody would run a consistently loss making program.

@anon4489532, the problem was all yours and your pecuniary desire to save a few pence. Had you purchased the Polyphon Statement, or even the Polyphon 500 series, as I did, you would have been able to play wax cylinders AND Thorens music boxes. The upgrade was quite robust, and the midrange on the wax cylinders was, hmmm, deliciously soft and liquid, like, uh, melted wax.

So there…

The trouble is what the customer expects. If they see it as a software based product or a hardware based. And the trouble.withNaim glueing the streamer (which I think most see as software based) with the DAC (hardware-based).

We all know at least Sporify and Apple Music will enter the lossless market. Our private music server may become cloud-based to make life easier for the users.

So the glued together streamer/DAC should be designed with enough extra years in mind (Linn manages to still support 13 year old devices). But then you run into RFI.

So uo end up with something like an ipad/phone where all the various parts on the system boards can be dynamically switched (Apple-devices have a few CPU-cores optimized for low speed (low interference).

My car is four years old and I have to accept that the navigation system is of its time. That’s exactly the same as the original streaming platform in NAIM kit. It still sounds great, but you can’t expect new free features to be added.
So long your NDX does everything thing it could when you bought it then your not a victim of ‘Planned Obsolescence’.

Is this a question because Naim have produced a product outside their former ‘core’ aim. That is, clean ampliification of an input signal?
The streaming products are integrated ‘new tech’ signal devices with ampliification. Should Naim separate these two components so as to recognise that the technology is constantly changing and these new tech components will always have a shorter shelf life than their conventional products?

Could be worse, you could have a whole house hard wired to a NaimNet system.

Most companies don’t have to advertise, but it is implied. Buy a £4k television now and you know that the new model will be announced at CES in January and be the “old” model by June. Same with a lot of digital products (phones, laptops, tablets). Even cars have reliable update cycles, so you can tell if they are likely to release a new-look model. The bigger issue with Naim, beyond my personal frustrations, is that I don’t know how long the Nova has left before getting shelved. If I want integrated Qobuz I have to get a one but could suffer from similar product timing issues.

The trade-in supported by a dealer is not enough for cases like this. They can only offer a sum based on the 2nd-hand value after leaving them some profit… and the value must drop for a product when a new one has just been announced. I did ask my dealer about Naim-sponsored trade-in at the time (my SU was less than three months old) but there was nothing forthcoming. I wasn’t expecting to just swap to the new kit, but some contribution in acknowledgement of the unfortunate timing.

I am a fan of the Naim one-box systems, with my ears / budget not being worthy of ‘Statement’ gear. However a Naim digital transport paired with an integrated ‘digital-focused’ amplifier would provide good separation of functions for me.

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Maybe my original post should have been ‘opportunistic’ rather than ‘planned’ obsolescence. Sure - it still works as originally designed, but not doing the Qobuz update for the NDX was an opportunity for Naim to boost NDX2 sales. I am losing interest in the argument now, but still want to to use Qobuz from my iPhone through my NDX and get similar quality to the music I stream from my NAS. I have now tried 2 wired solutions. It works through the usb slot on the front, going to iTunes first (a bit of a fiddle) and the quality seems to be as good with a U2S Phiree USB to coaxial adapter into the NDX coaxial input(a more practical solution). So I need 4 to 5 metres of cabling to sit and listen with my iPhone in hand. Ligthning camera kit cable, USB to micro USB and digital coaxial. What lengths for each and what quality/price do I need to go to?

Having a Naim run trade-in program would definitely increase retail prices, though - the money we would get back needs to come from somewhere…

I would hope a useful scheme would not require Naim to sell below cost price and could be services or products, so would not “definitely” require an increase in retail prices. I’d consider it as part of a marketing program: right now I’m holding off from spending £4k because I don’t know if it is about to be replaced… increased confidence -> more sales -> greater economies of scale -> lower retail prices?

I think you aren’t being realistic about the numbers that would be associated with all those different things. Economies of scale don’t come from making twice as many units, but at least ten or even 100 times as many, and I think the potential market for Naim equipment (apart from entry level products like Atom, muso and Qb) is just not large enough to support 10 or 100 times as many of any particular product.

Best

David

The last sentence was more in jest… perhaps it was in need of a :slight_smile: . I still don’t buy the argument that any scheme by Naim must result in retail prices increasing. In any case, I’d take a commitment of future support to fix firmware bugs and consider legacy users in app updates (with the occasional cherry-on-top feature we can use).

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Sounds to me, generally, what Naim have been doing at least since I’ve been a customer starting in 2012.

Now that you have the wired-via-iPhone solution up and running, you may be well served (!!) by searching for the BubbleUPNP proxy solution as described by @trickydickie.

This would offer options for using Qobuz on your NDX as if it were a “regular” UPnP service, or as a way to bridge Roon and all of its enriched experience via a protocol channel that your NDX already understands. Neater and more convenient than pursuing higher quality wired solutions for your iPhone imho.

Now is a good time to look for slightly more complex installations (a one time investment in skill and energy) that sidestep the entire question of what wasn’t added by Naim into your NDX, or what ease-of-use is available only at a significant cost surcharge by moving to the new platform NDX2. Many many ways to skin this particular cat, and you already gave awesome hardware to make the most of these new(er) services.

Best regards for continued success on your alternative path to upgrades!
alan

Wish I could do this with my original mu-so.

I just want to hide inputs I don’t use, this is a very basic request and has nothing to do with the hardware and could be done very easily.

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You should have gone to SpecSavers!!! :slightly_smiling_face:

You need to look at other makes if you want some future planning built in, you need chips and software that can be updated when new things come out, rather than the buy the new model attitude.
The latest models will get the same treatment, so dont worry unless you have got one lol