I love my Fact 8s. Had them for about 7 years now. The clarity, separation, imaging etc, is sublime. The only niggle I have is the one I noticed when I first plugged them in. On The Jam’s “Ghosts” there’s a thumping single bass note in the intro. My older B+ Ws rendered this perfectly. Hit me in the chest. The PMCs have always been too polite for this and I do miss the heft and attack of bass. It is there. Just not enough of it. So what to do? I don’t want to change them but wondering if I need to upgrade the 250 DR to a 300 and whether that would settle it for good or would I always be looking for more? Paley
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I really doubt that your proposal will result in the magnitude of change that you are looking for.
After 7 years . . . and you’re still longing for something from the past . . . this is tough. Is it really just that one note on that one track that is leaving you wanting? If so . . . maybe you need to think of it like that great bottle of wine you had in that little cafe on the Amalfi coast in 1994 . . . a wonderful memory but never to be repeated. Or that young woman you met when you were having a holiday with your parents in 1981 . . . and you held hands and walked on the beach and kissed under the stars with the waves lapping up on the shore. But then her family returned home to Newcastle and you never saw her again . . .
And maybe realize that memories can play tricks on us too . . . maybe that long-lost bass note was actually . . . (to be continued) . . .
NB: I am shopping this as a screenplay and trying to interest Christopher Nolan in it.
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What you really want is larger cone area. If you do not want to change the speakers, add one or two subwoofers.
Rel suggest the S/812 for your speakers.
Rather than Christopher Nolan, try Mills & Boon. I never had you down as such a romantic.
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I have pmc twenty5 26, I choose them instead fact 8 as they are a bit warmer, you can feel a bit more the thump. Still they are good for listening into a flat at low / medium volume, but I found the fact to be more holographic and the twenty a little less detailed but warmer. fact are close to perfection but a bit cold.
Than it’s matter of taste.
F8s inevitably are limited in the bass. F12 doesn’t take up significantly more room space, and is much more capable!
When I did an audition of multiple PMC speakers, I found MB2 better than EBIi, that better than Twenty.26, and F12 I wasn’t sure about, a bit underwhelming thiugh I later heard in another room where they impressed more, and I felt somewhere maybe second to the MB in that list, possibly more suited to a smaller room. (F8 didn’t feature as I felt it wouldn’t be satisfying to my taste.)
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presumably you have tried moving them closer to the wall behind them to try an increase bass? and that the LF switch on the back is set to 0 (maximum) and not turned down?
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I know exactly what bass note you are referencing - it sounds awesome. Hope you can recover it.
I’m going to listen again to that mythical note and see if it, indeed, somethin from the past never to be repeated. I love the notion of it becoming part of a screenplay. I’m a writer (among other things) and I shall definitely explore it. Incidentally my wife and I saw the Jom’s final concert at the Brighton Centre. A real Ziggy moment. Amazing concert. I’ve been shifting the speakers round for a couple of days. Moved them closer though distance from the wall is ok. Slightly toed in. Anyway, great advice and thoughts. What a creative lot you are. Paley
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I ran FACT 8 Signatures with a 552 and 300 DR and they were exceptional, but they simply do not have that upper bass slam that a dedicated driver can achieve. What they deliver in low frequency from two tiny drivers through that transmission line is simply phenomenal. I ended up considering low end as ‘bass by proxy’ as you are never really directly coupled to the bass drum kick in a way you will be with a dedicated driver. That’s ultimately why I moved to the YG Acoustics Ascent, as it has a fairly massive and huge-throw bass driver towards the lower end of the enclosure, just like the transmission line exit on the FACT 8’s. Now I finally get the bass impact I was missing - especially apparent on Ride Across the River on Brother in Arms - wonderful drum impact restored. The bass-by-proxy idea is very very amplifier friendly and the NAP300 DR I had never broke a sweat at high volume with the FACT 8’s but I have had the fan on maximum in my now changed NAP500DR when listening to music on the YG’s at enthusiastic volumes.
So I don’t think any size amplifier will give you the bass impact you miss (as I did), maybe a pair of REL subwoofers as suggested by Chalshus is likely by far the best remedy if you otherwise like what the FACT 8’s do… FACT 12’s are a MUCH trickier beast - I tried them from my local dealer just to see what I was missing, and the NAP300DR was not sufficient to control them and the bass was way overblown in a boomy way in the medium sized room where the FACT 8’s really rocked.
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I have Fact 12’s being powered by a Parasound JC5 which is a 400Watt Power Amp. These speakers are definitely much harder to drive than my previous Twenty 26, I have found speaker placement more sensitive and I continue to use my single REL S510 which provides me with that touch of warmth in addition to the wonderful midrange and clarity of the 12’s. I have not listened to a Naim Amp with these but I would suspect you would be looking at the 500 series given their sensitivity is only 84db. As others have said, if it is just that extra low end you need, I strongly consider a REL, at low frequencies sound is non directional so you do not need two in order to have a balanced sound. The thing to remember is a Sub not only increases provides low end it also opens up whole frequency range.
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Thanks again. Talking to the dealer about trying an REL sub tin the system and to get him round for a spring clean (cable waggling and other mumbo, burning of sage and hopi candles) seemed to work last time. Paley
I had a truly wonderful M&K XV100 sub about 20 years ago - although small, it had an incredibly lightweight paper driver and a huge magnet / driver assembly; it gave amazing punch but coupled with superb speed, I’d definitely look out the fastest sub you possibly can to partner the also extremely fast FACT 8’s…
Last one for now. The dealer is suggesting that speakers of Fact 8 quality are now around 12000 but mentions Dynaudio contours as an alternative. Maybe not as subtle, but more slam, works well with Naim. Anybody tried or invested in them?
Best sub I’m aware of for music (as opposed to cinema effects) is Wilson Benesch Torus. Not the highest output, of possible significance if you play loud, though if 2 used that gives more. N.B. Received wisdom suggests that in many rooms 2 subs are noticeably better than one, not for directionality reasons, but to minimise room effects.
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