Wow!
Indeed
It might be that the PMC’s don’t work well in my room
Appreciate this is about the Prodigy, but just to say when I listened to the Prophecy 7, I was surprised at how little deep bass they could produce in the dealer’s listening room. The test track I use for deep bass is ‘Jungle is a shapeshifter’ by Prurient. On most speakers the bass is barely audible until a subwoofer’s included (although my Contour 20is can reproduce most of the bass), at which point the whole room feels like it’s about to blow. The Prophecies were almost silent though during the track. Same with some trap like Future with deep 808 bass lines, where there was little of the bass energy reproduced. Obviously the dealer blamed the room! This was with a Hegel 400.
My dealer has, IMO an awful dem room. Its upstairs in an old building that must be 200 years old. The floor is nowhere near level. Ive listened to speakers there that produce minimal bass, yet in my room at home sound quite different. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what stuff sounds like in a dem room. Its in your house that matters.
Strangely I’ve just got home and playing some Dire Straits (love over gold) and it’s sounding fantastic
Hmmm ![]()
But I’m still missing the ATC’s sound
Perhaps see which one you miss the most when they’re both gone?
Choosing speakers is tricky. When I was looking for speakers for my first Naim system, Kudos (before the Titan range) were forum favourites. I had a pair on home demo and, swayed to some extent by forum opinion, decided to buy them. Within a year or so, I realised I was avoiding playing half my collection and had made a costly mistake. I still think they were good speakers, but they just didn’t “do it” for me in my room. And that was despite a home dem.
I’m not sure that story is very helpful, but I do sympathise with your quandary. All I can suggest is to go with your head and heart rather than forum “wisdom”.
Roger
Yes, speakers are so personal a choice because more than any other component they are responsible for overall sound character. If it was me I would audition a lot wider than those two speakers, and if that was my budget I would look at secondhand or possibly ex-dem to increase buying power, to get the best speakers I could.
I can’t comment on difference in sound/presentation between ATC and PMC as I haven’t compared. Both brands are used in recording studios, though primarily more upmarket models than these, when perhaps their accuracy, neutrality and clarity are more similar. i
My PMC P5 work well in a medium to larger sized room (say 4.5msq and up).
Although ATL, there’s a misconception that speakers can be located close to walls. That’s simply not the case as refraction occurs and muddiness ensues regardless of speaker (albeit infinite baffle does help)….
However, speaker tuning and voicing definitely exists. PMC are similar in voice to ATC but the comparison SCM11 to P5 is apples to oranges as one is standmount t’other floorstander….
Now, the only person to whom it matters is the listener, but messing about in room with placement and giving space to breathe WILL alter presentation….
Something in between the ATC and PMC would be an ALCHRIS TX5….a quite remarkable speaker at a remarkable price from a remarkable builder…. And with its voice perhaps meet you halfway….
Good luck with the search and keep trying various options… I’m in a similar position at the moment too with my reshuffle !
I’m not sure about that. My twenty5.21is are about 8cm from the wall and there is no muddiness whatsoever. They are as clear as a bell.
indeed; as I said, room specific. soft furnishings, glass, curtains, etc.
but in general a speaker in free space [where layout permits] will perform better than one constrained. simple physics / sound refraction.
That is somewhat definitive, and I was simply saying that it’s not correct, at least in my house. Maybe I can get away with it because the speakers are small and have lots of space to the sides.
very situation specific. do yourself a wee test. try to get an equilateral listening position with the speakers away from the wall for an album. just get them out in free space for an hour with the perfect equilateral and see how it sounds.
move ‘em back once done……
That depends on speaker design as well as room. The primary influence of proximity to the wall behind the speaker(front wall) is enhancement of bass, with some speakers actually designed to require that, while real room effects may make beneficial. Then as speaker is moved away, ‘comb filtering’ at from reflections alternately cancelling and enhancing at different frequencies comes in. Muddiness is mainly from early reflections at mid/high frequencies, and as their propagation is much more direct than bass frequencies the front wall effect is minor, rather reflections from floor, ceiling, rear wall (particularly if the distance behind the listening position is less than a couple of metres) and significant and side walls (particularly if distances from speaker are more than a metre and a half or so).
Indeed. Well said and I can’t addd anything more other than personal preferences will also dictate choice, selection, position.
I’m not so sure stand vs floor is an apples vs oranges comparison, at least where SQ is concerned. ATC’s SCM 20 comes in stand-mount and floor-standing versions and the company clearly states they sound the same and that the difference is purely cosmetic.
Roger
I’d bow to their opinion, but note that that is 2 speakers from the same manufacturer, possibly built to meet the same sound spectrum.
ATC PMC use different approaches altogether.
Yes, I’ve noted that with one or two of ATC’s larger speakers that are available in tower and ‘standard’, which puzzled me a little as the extra internal volume for to have at least a slight difference at the bass end, and drive more significant difference with the speaker is small to start with like the 20. Of course it is always possible that the physical difference is purely cosmetic, and that’s the speaker enclosure doesn’t extend all the way to the base, the bottom just being a support, neater and obviating decisions as to what stands to use.
Other than the bass extension arising from the transmission line loading, if the overall sound character of the larger ATC and PMC speakers are not hugely removed from one another, as someone has suggested, then maybe what we are seeing in this instance is the effect of building a floorstanding transmission line speaker to a very tight budget, but that is purely speculation on my part.
Audiophile indecision paralysis ![]()
I know the feeling. You miss the ATC, that is all you really need to make a decision imho. No speaker will be perfect it’s whether you can live with the short comings.
Personally I’d rather have a little less but tight bass than sloppy bass or too much of it … .
in the right environment, with the right amplification, the PMC P5 are a VERY STRONG performer, punching well above their purchase price, comparatively.
There are so many choices, the research and short-listing and home-demoing is all part of the fun.