Problems playing back long DSD rips with Naim app and NDS

Hi all. I participated in the old forum but, apart from the occasional glance, drifted away from it (but not from my Naim gear). A specific problem has brought me back, seeking the community’s experience.

A couple of years ago I made the jump to a server-based system and replaced my CDX2 with an Innuos Zen 2 server and NDS/555-PS streamer. All of the Redbook CDs that I have ripped and any high-resolution content that I have purchased for download, whether DSD or PCM, have played without problem through the Naim app.

Recently I learned that there is a way to rip the DSD content from the SACD hybrid discs in my collection using the Oppo Blu-ray player in my home theatre (search ISO2DSD_gui for details). I have given this a go for seven discs in my collection.

The problem that I’m having is that the Naim app shows and plays much shorter track times than what is on the discs for three tracks (everything else works fine). For example, the 3rd movement of Mahler’s 4th Symphony is 25 minutes, 27 seconds. The Naim app shows 5 seconds, and that’s how much it plays before it moves on to the next track.

The common features of the problematic tracks are that they are long (25 to 30 minutes) and the size on disc is a little greater than 1 GB.

The Innuos music library shows the correct track times. Also, I can stream the files through my Oppo Blu-ray player using its media app. So, this would appear to be a playback issue with the Naim app rather than a problem with data extraction from the SACD hybrid discs.

Has anyone else experienced this problem and, more importantly, found a solution? Does the Naim app just have problems with DSF files larger than a certain size?

Cheers and thanks in advance to anyone who has relevant experience to share.

All the Naim app does is show what’s on the server - it doesn’t actually ‘play’ anything - so it sounds as though there is an issue in the way the discs have been ripped, or in the server itself. It may be worth checking the NDS is on the latest firmware too. I seem to recall DSD being added to its functionality at some point.

Yes, the ability to play single-rate DSD files was added to Naim streamers in 2017 or earlier. That was one of the developments that triggered my move to a server-based system; that and the clear-out prices that were offered on the NDS in late 2017 (it and the 555-PS are the only bits of Naim gear that I have ever bought new). The firmware is up to date.

I appreciate that the Naim app’s function is to show what’s on the server. But the evidence suggests that, for whatever reason, it is not properly seeing what is there. The media app for my Oppo player plays the tracks correctly through my home theatre system and the Innuos interface also sees the correct timing. The file sizes also appear correct. For example, the 3rd movement of Mahler’s 4th Symphony is 2.7 time longer than the 4th movement and the respective file sizes are in the same proportion.

There are different dsd. Old streamers play only dsd64 ( 2.8 Mhz), while the current Naim range is able to play both dsd64 and dsd128 (5.6 Mhz).

Hi, I have experienced the same problem and reported it to Naim over a year and a half ago. The problem exists on legacy streamers whereby the DSF files exceed 1gb in size. It has nothing to do with the way the tracks are ripped as they play fine on the new streamers. I have tested this myself using the same files played on a Naim NDX and then on a Naim Atom. They play in their entirety on the Atom but only for a short period on the NDX.

The issue was brought up on the old Naim forum when I was trying to find out if others had the problem. I contacted Naim to let them know and after doing some testing they recognised there was an issue. They said it would be solved in a future firmware update but so far this has not happened. I did contact them again two or three times a few months later and at first they reiterated that they would issue an update. More time passed and unfortunately, the last time I contacted Naim for an update (a few months ago), I didn’t get a response so I’ve pretty much given up on this being fixed.

DSD on nds are really dull and boring. All the life is sucked , as with heavy acoustic treatment.
I have maybe 10 and don’t play them anymore.
I don’t say that dsd sounds like that, but on Naim streamers.

Thanks for the additional feedback. I have also sent an email to Naim tech support just this weekend. We’ll see what happens with that. It’s great that there is a new generation of streamers, but it would indeed be odd (and a disappointing departure from Naim’s reputation) if what was the top of the line a scant two years ago is now legacy technology not worthy of support.

In the meantime I have found a solution, at least for the Mahler 4th. Using TEAC’s freely available TASCAM hi-res editor software I was able to convert the 2.8Mhz DSF file to a 24/94 WAV file. For some reason, the WAV file is smaller than the DSF, a little over 800 MB, and is seen properly by the Naim app and more importantly plays the correct length.

I have not yet tried this on the other problematic tracks, the 1st and 4th movements of Mahler’s 9th and the 1st and 6th movements of Mahler’s 3rd, but will give it a go in the next few days.

The new generation will not play better dsd. The Dac inside is the same.
Better play 24 bit than dsd for the most lively and dynamic sound.
However if your goal is to focus on dsd, I would say that Naim is not the perfect player for that.
Better have merging, chord or DCS for really profit from dsd.

On Naim platform I use Roon or HQPlayer to do DSD to PCM conversion first, internal DSD to PCM conversion in Naim’s DSP is really…not my taste, no matter old or new platform.

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Yes, converting to PCM will work but clearly a hassle and not ideal.

It does take some time, but under the current circumstances I have, as I suspect many of us do, time to spare…

I’d be interested to hear what kind of feedback you get from Naim. When I contacted them, they asked me to send them some example files which I did. They came back in agreement that there was an issue but nothing’s happened since unfortunately. I just checked my emails and it was actually back in June 2018 that I sent the original files! I’ve contacted them a few times since but got nowhere.

Will do. I sent the query on the weekend and the promise is that they will respond within four business days. Of course, that would be under normal conditions, something that we are not experiencing now!

Exactly right french… I said that a long time ago DSD is boring sound dull not dynamic even when you raise up volume its still dull.. dont understand the purpose,who need it?

With Naim I agree. But perhaps not with true dsd decoding dacs.

Didn’t try others I cannot tell you anything…love HD

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