You are clearly passionate about the sport (and many other things), and have made several excellent points.
I’d not heard Hancock’s comments realting to their salaries when I initially posted but don’t think that was right coming from a minister.
As a member of the public however, I’ll reiterate that I think the PFA (presumably supporting players’ majority wishes) are on a sticky wicket using loss of tax/NI to defend the industry furloughing low paid workers to be funded by HMG while advocating their members should retain full salaries. It’s hardly a brilliant PR exercise. It’s the well publicised PFA stance and arguments that are attracting criticism here.
OK - well, I would disagree to some extent with what you are saying. I do understand the argument behind paying players large sums (because the income from football can be large). However, paying them large sums is not the only answer. The football clubs could charge less for what they do, for instance, or pay their other staff more, or pay out more in dividends. There are many alternatives. They could even give more to other organisations. Getting rid of money is easy.
And I am not fond of football, or pretty much any sport. That, though, is quite irrelevant to how I feel about the huge sums some people get paid - and sports people are not, really the worst examples.
There are those who get billions of whatever currency you choose per year. What on earth can you realistically do with that much money? Not much that is useful in many cases, it seems.
There are important and significant exceptions. Bill Gates, for instance. For one thing, I am not so annoyed by people who, perhaps taking risks, start up a business and make a success of it and make money that way. And of course Gates is using much of his money in very useful ways. Besos? Not so much.
It feels to me to be a rather unsatisfactory state of affairs in this world where, for instance, incredibly talented and clever research scientists get paid peanuts for their work, while the considerably less talented and clever top management of the firm they work for get paid a small (or large) fortune.
To assume that I haven’t thought things through is, I think, a little patronising. I have thought a great deal about such things. And please don’t assume that I am a communist or socialist. I am neither of those.
The examples you’ve given of players taking a 70% cut or deferral of salary are for the top / biggest club in the 3 countries mentioned. That’s not the same as an across the board cut to all players in the EPL.
Re the drop in tax & NI, that strikes me as a valid argument. If the players take a cut and some club owners have already made it clear that they’ll go for govt funding rather than digging into their own pocket even where they can reasonably cover the costs [Spurs, Liverpool etc], maybe the PFA has a valid view that players taking a cut would be of benefit only to the club owners, and that it does indeed require a more nuanced approach that newspaper headlines don’t quite grasp or convey.
Players taking a pay cut will be of benefit to club owners, especially with the professional clubs being run on huge debts and maybe no TV money coming in (?).
Any govt funding will be business loans or the furloughed workers scheme which is limited to £2,500 per month.
What I find distasteful are football clubs dumping low paid staff who actually do some thing vaguely useful onto state support then continue to pay ‘the princesses’ their over inflated salaries.
Very easy to come up with simplistic answers to this but let’s be clear on a few things:
1 - absolutely no doubt the attacks on EPL players and clubs are politically motivated.
2 - doesn’t take away from the fact that most could afford to take an 80% cut with no significant damage.
3 - doesn’t take away from the fact that clubs like Liverpool are embarrassing themselves by using the furlough scheme for any staff. It’s straightforward abuse of the intent.
4 - the leadership of the FA has once again been found to be hopelessly wanting but government continues to refuse to address that.
5 - that lack of leadership has allowed the EPL to once again let TV money dictate decision making and has left clubs across 7+ levels in no mans land.
6 - the EPL have brought forward monies to be paid but have paid no more than that. They have promised to do so but as yet have not paid a penny. The amount they propose to pay amounts to less than 5% of the amount they have effectively taken out of other levels of the game over several decades.
7 - the FA itself aside you could not find an organisation more out of touch than the PFA or Gordon Taylor. The figures they quote for PAYE are simply BS. I’d refer you all back to the Daniel Geey article on the image rights of EPL footballers and the means by which they pay their agents. There are players at our level paying more tax than a significant number of EPL players. Even if they were contributing anything of significance to the NHS you’d do well to find one who’s actually used it. Not using the NHS us as much a contribution to its current scenario as anything else.
8 - should government have also singled out hedge fund managers? Yes, absolutely but then with 1 or 2 exceptions they have largely understood the need to not be seen to be taking bonuses right now and to STFU whereas EPL players have been very vocal about hard done they are whilst huge numbers of the, are simultaneously quietly rearranged going their tax affairs explicitly to ensure the loss of playing and other bonuses are offset.
9 - in the midst of that agents are getting something like £261m and being investigated by HMRC for tax fraud.
Yes, there is not much scope in there for estate agents or salespersons.
That said with apologies to any members of this forum who have these occupations - this is my personal view based on unfortunate experiences, and I accept that there will be individuals who are honest, honourable, diligent, worthwhile and professional, even if I haven’t come across them myself.
I would like to see 50 points deducted from any PL that does this. This season would be scrapped and those teams who have furloughed staff while paying players/coaches would start next season with -50 points.
I can’t understand why players don’t just make a contribution. Do the likes of Jack Grealish and Kyle Walker have to have it spelled out? Some, of course, have done good. Others who cry about being made scapegoats are pathetic and remind me of the child at school who says “I wasn’t the only one mucking about sir”.
I can’t say I’m overly impressed with my club “Forest Green Rovers has decided to furlough all staff and use the Government’s Coronavirus Support Scheme. The club confirmed it would be put into “hibernation” until football is ready to return to action”. The players had been hibernating since Christmas any way.
Let’s hope Jordan Henderson’s initiative works and the whinging footballers try to help people even though his club are now an embarrassment (and not alone).
PL players and managers are often targets for the high sums that they are paid but let’s remember that they are people too and vulnerable as any of us to Covid19. I believe Pep’s mother has just died from Covid19. I’m sure he and his family are hurting just as much as any other family. His wealth will be of no comfort in his grief. I wish him well.
Don’t forget Gary Neville and Gigsy who have turned over their hotels in Manchester for use for free by NHS staff during the Coronavirus crisis while still paying staff to man the hotels, another worthy contribution
…and then there’s this side of the storey. Admittedly, it’s a rare part of the storey, but if someone can explain how this can happen without bringing the full might of the players union down on the club, I would like to know.
We know what happened with the Bosman ruling. You would think international player power would be able to suppress this type of employer action. Or do you think the sensitivity of the issue is preventing an assertive reaction from unions and agents?
Equally, if the taxation system allows gestures seen as altruistic to be made with little impact to the benefactor, it’s probably in our general interest whether the intent is altruistic or not, or at least make those who can more likely to make such gestures for personal or PR reasons.
I would like to withdraw my comment pertaining to Liverpool FC as the club has now apologised and won’t furlough staff. So well done to those who did the decent thing. I hope others will follow this example.
I don’t have any feeling for the modern footballer and whole industry. However when I look up the worth of people in music industry, one worth £500 million, another £170 million and it goes on and on, why single out one Section of community.
Well that’s because musicians earn their income by monetising their talents selling their abilities to people who are willing to pay for it. Footballers meanwhile are selfish greedy oafs who suck customers dry by wanting to be paid for their talents.
